webr55

10 hours ago, GRA said:

Hello Chris!

I don't think this is a Swedish ribbon bar.

The green ribbon could well be the Order of Vasa, but the last ribbon can't be the Order of the Polar Star. The ribbon of the last was changed from black to blue with yellow borders in the 1970's and this ribbon bar seems a lot older. If it would be Swedish the ribbons you mention would be worn among the very first, not last. Also, I've never seen this style of ribbon bar worn in Sweden.

The crown on the bar could indicate its origin in a monarchy? Maybe the crown indicating some sort of a court official? I would be somewhat surprised if a republic would approve of a crown in a design like that...

/Jonas

Thanks! Very interesting to hear that you haven't seen this style in Sweden before. It's completely new to me as well.

It is hard to tell how old it is. And it's actually quite big, much bigger than the usual ribbon bars we see.

I had the same ideas as you:

1) Crown indicates monarchy, so which one? If not Sweden, then what?

2) Court official seems also likely to me, given the style.

Actually, I found some Swedish awards that might fit, for example:

#1: the black ribbon for the Gustav V Funeral Medal - or this is just the Order of the Polar Star on the old ribbon. Would make sense in first place as his highest decoration.

#3: light blue for the Gustav V Royal Household Medal

#5: the green one could be the silver medal to the Vasa Order

#6: for the last ribbon, blue with yellow stripes, there are several possibilities for medals, such as the Royal Medal for Zeal and Honor Gustav V

How about that? Are there any Swedish medals on red ribbon?

Recently acquired this ribbon bar of a style I have never seen before. Is this a Swedish bar? The last awards seem Order of Vasa and Order of the Northern Star to me. Any thoughts on this? Anyone seen this type before?

Regards

Chris 

Hello all,

a belated Happy New Year! This time I have a question, regarding swords on ribbon bars, and specifically the type below, which is usually considered a late WW2 type. I have always wondered when they started to appear exactly. Does anyone have examples of this type of swords on ribbon bars which are clearly from before 1942?

Regards

Chris

That is the combination of Generalleutnant Kurt Beuttel (1886-1956). I would say chances are quite low that there are other candidates with the same awards. The Zähringen is not so frequent. Very nice bar!

Regards

Chris

Most interesting research, arb! That solves the question why the 1866 is not on his bar. He definitely was on the Kurhessian side, so fought against the Prussians in 1866.

And great bar of course, Claudio!

It looks like the silver medal, yes. The one second to last on this bar, which belongs to a forum member (I think): 

As I said earlier, it would be good to see the backs.

Yes exactly. And the last ribbon might indeed be the Spanish Merito Naval, worn on his ribbon bar. 

The red stripe is hard to make out, but it is there.

The Hindenburg Cross can also be seen on this later picture of him:

Here is another, earlier pic of Wülfing with his medal bar. It seems he changed the precedence of his awards. The one behind the "Finn. Freiheitskreuz 2. Kl." on the ribbon bar above (the one with the lighter color) is in last position on his medal bar. I believe this is the Finnische Tapferkeitsmedaille. 

You need to show the backs of the bars as well. 

No Hindenburg is a killer. 

Bumping this up after years, still many unidentified photos here. 

For the solution to this riddle, see http://gmic.co.uk/topic/27526-major-new-find-reichsarbeitsdienst-dienstalterslisten-19381940/?do=findComment&comment=457338

It is Moritz Freiherr von Gall.  

31 minutes ago, The Prussian said:

 

Why are most of the photos in this thread shown twice?

I don't know, that was caused by the system. Trying to edit it. 

Finally, some more pictures of Ehm. 

This one must have been taken between 1971 (Mongolian medal) and 1973 (Friedrich Engels Prize is missing):

This one between 1977 (promotion to Admiral) and 1978. The Yugoslav award is there, but not yet the Mexican one:

And a last one with Erich Honecker, dating from 1985:

I copy the short CV from my former thread: 

Wilhelm Ehm was born in 1918 during the final days of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, in Pola near Triest. After WW1, his family moved to Bohemia, where they lived in Czechoslovakia until the German occupation. Ehm was then drafted into the Wehrmacht and became Oberfunker (NCO) in the Nachrichtentruppe. So, unlike other DDR military leaders, he was not a former "anti-fascist" fighter. 

He was in the Kurland army in 1945, then Russian POW, released 1947. Entered SED 1948, and 1950 (as Oberkommissar/1st Lt.) in Hauptverwaltung Seepolizei (HVS), the forerunner of the People's Navy (therefore naval barracks' police!). Rose quickly to deputy chief of staff of the People's Navy (founded in 1956) and as such to Kapitän zS in 1957. 

In 1959, it came as a big surprise to many that he (being just 41) was chosen by his predecessor Waldemar Verner as the new chief of the People's Navy, with promotion to Konteradmiral. From 1961-63, he was granted leave to attend the Naval Academy in Leningrad. Apparently, he was never really satisfied with his military knowledge, earning a (non-honorary) PhD in 1978 at the age of 60. 

He made Vizeadmiral in 1964, deputy minister of defence in 1972, Admiral in 1977. In 1987, he retired on his own will. Died in 2009.

No. 13 and 14 have been puzzling me for a long time. 

About 13, see this thread: http://gmic.co.uk/topic/14307-orden-quoternesto-che-guevaraquot/ 
It seems very plausible that Ehm got the Cuban order, from a friendly state. It must have been awarded between 1973 and 1978. (Picture below from Stogieman) [[Update, see below!: Yugoslav Order of Military Merit 1st class ]] 

About 14: The Mexican "Cruz Naval al Merito Especial" (Navy Special Merit Cross) is the one pictured below. The ribbon can also be found here: http://www.coleccionesmilitares.com/cintas/america/mejico4.gif
I am very confident Ehm got this award in 1980, when ships of the Mexican navy visited the GDR. There is a small report in the "Neues Deutschland" here (mentioning Ehm): https://www.nd-archiv.de/ausgabe/1980-07-24

Here is the second bar, not mine. It was sold in 2008. 

This bar dates from 1986:

On this bar, we have (those in bold are new awards):

1)    Karl-Marx-Orden (awarded in 1983)
2)    Ehrenspange zum Vaterländischen Verdienstorden
3)    Vaterländischer Verdienstorden in Gold
4)    Vaterländischer Verdienstorden in Silber 

5)    Scharnhorst-Orden
6)    Kampforden für Verdienste um Volk und Vaterland in Gold
7)    Kampforden für Verdienste um Volk und Vaterland in Silber
8)    Kampforden für Verdienste um Volk und Vaterland in Bronze
9)    Order of the Red Star (second award) (Soviet Union)

10) Order of the Red Star (Soviet Union)
11) Orden Banner der Arbeit 1. Kl. (Order Banner of Labor 1st class)
12) Ehrentitel Verdienter Angehöriger der Nationalen Volksarmee
13) Verdienter Angehöriger der Grenztruppen der DDR
14) Ehrentitel Verdienter Seemann  

15) Polonia Restituta, Grand Officer (Poland)
16) probably "Ernesto Che Guevara" Order 1st class (Cuba) (now in correct width) [[Update, see below!: Yugoslav Order of Military Merit 1st class ]] 
17) Cruz Naval al Merito Especial (Navy Special Merit Cross) (Mexico)
18) my guess: Order of Miguel Larreynaga from Nicaragua (must have been awarded between 1981 and 1986) 

19) Verdienstmedaille der Nationalen Volksarmee in Gold
20) Verdienstmedaille der Nationalen Volksarmee in Silber
21) Medaille für Treue Dienste in der Seeverkehrswirtschaft in Gold
22) Medaille für Treue Dienste in der Seeverkehrswirtschaft in Silber
23) Medaille für Treue Dienste in der Seeverkehrswirtschaft in Bronze 

24) Verdienstmedaille der Kampfgruppen der Arbeiterklasse in Gold
25) Verdienstmedaille der Kampfgruppen der Arbeiterklasse in Bronze
26) Verdienstmedaille der Deutschen Post in Gold 
27) Ehrenzeichen der Deutschen Volkspolizei
28) Medaille für vorbildlichen Grenzdienst 

29) Friedrich-Engels-Preis (here with device)
30) Medaille der Waffenbrüderschaft in Gold (Brotherhood in Arms)
31) Medaille Waffenbrüderschaft (Soviet Union) (1979) (Brotherhood in Arms, worn upside down)
32) Medaille zur Stärkung der Waffenbrüderschaft 1. Klasse (CSSR) (1970) (Brotherhood in Arms) 

33) Medaille der Waffenbrüderschaft in Gold (Ungarn) (1979) ("Brotherhood in Arms", Hungary)
34) Medaille der Waffenbrüderschaft (Polen) (Odznaka Braterstwa Broni) ("Brotherhood in Arms" from Poland)
35) Medaille der Waffenbrüderschaft (Bulgarien) (1975) ("Brotherhood in Arms", Bulgaria)
36) Medaille für ausgezeichnete Leistungen in landwirtschaftlichen Produktionsgenossenschaften

37) Erinnerungsmedaille anlässlich des 20jährigen Bestehens der Kampfgruppen der Arbeiterklasse (1973) (here with device)
38) Medaille zum 30. Jahrestag der DDR (1979)
39) Erinnerungsmedaille 20. Jahrestag demokratische Bodenreform (1965)
40) Jubiläumsmedaille „60 Jahre Rote Armee“ (UdSSR) (1978)
41) Jubiläumsmedaille „30 Jahre Bulgarische Volksarmee“ (Bulgarien) (1974)

42) Jubiläumsmedaille „50 Jahre Volksarmee“ (Mongolei) (1971)
43) Medaille für 20 Jahre Treue Dienste in der Nationalen Volksarmee
44) Medaille für 15 Jahre Treue Dienste in der Nationalen Volksarmee
45) Medaille für 10 Jahre Treue Dienste in der Nationalen Volksarmee
46) Medaille für Treue Dienste in der Kasernierten Volkspolizei

These are the awards on his bar. Especially interesting are his numerous foreign awards:

1) Ehrenspange zum Vaterländischen Verdienstorden (awarded in 1981) (Honor Clasp to the Patriotic Order of Merit)
2) Vaterländischer Verdienstorden in Gold (awarded in 1978) (Patriotic Order of Merit in Gold)
3) Vaterländischer Verdienstorden in Silber (awarded in 1960) (Patriotic Order of Merit in Silver)

4) Scharnhorst Order 
5) Kampforden für Verdienste um Volk und Vaterland in Gold
6) Kampforden für Verdienste um Volk und Vaterland in Silber
7) Kampforden für Verdienste um Volk und Vaterland in Bronze

8) Order of the Red Star (Soviet Union) 
9) Ehrentitel Verdienter Angehöriger der Nationalen Volksarmee
10) Erinnerungsmedaille 20. Jahrestag demokratische Bodenreform (1965)
11) Verdienstmedaille der Nationalen Volksarmee in Gold

12) Polonia Restituta, Grand Officer (Poland)
13) probably „Ernesto Che Guevara“-Order 1st class (Cuba) [[Update, see below!: Yugoslav Order of Military Merit 1st class ]] (on an improvised ribbon, which is too wide for the original award, however the correct width is on his second bar, see below)
14) Cruz Naval al Merito Especial (Mexico) (on an improvised ribbon, most probably awarded in 1980, see below)

15) Verdienstmedaille der Nationalen Volksarmee in Silber
16) Ehrenzeichen der Deutschen Volkspolizei
17) Verdienstmedaille der Deutschen Post in Gold 
18) Medaille für Treue Dienste in der Seeverkehrswirtschaft in Gold

19) Medaille für Treue Dienste in der Seeverkehrswirtschaft in Silber
20) Medaille für Treue Dienste in der Seeverkehrswirtschaft in Bronze
21) Medaille für vorbildlichen Grenzdienst 
22) Friedrich-Engels-Preis (awarded in 1973, no device here, but it is on his second bar, see below)

23) Medaille der Waffenbrüderschaft in Gold (Medal "Brotherhood in Arms")
24) Verdienstmedaille der Kampfgruppen der Arbeiterklasse in Gold
25) Verdienstmedaille der Kampfgruppen der Arbeiterklasse in Bronze
26) Erinnerungsmedaille anlässlich des 20jährigen Bestehens der Kampfgruppen der Arbeiterklasse (1973) (no device here, but it is on his second bar, see below)

27) Medaille für ausgezeichnete Leistungen in landwirtschaftlichen Produktionsgenossenschaften
28) Jubiläumsmedaille „60 Jahre Rote Armee“ (Soviet Union) (1978)
29) Jubiläumsmedaille „30 Jahre Bulgarische Volksarmee“ (Bulgaria) (1974)
30) Jubiläumsmedaille „50 Jahre Volksarmee“ (Mongolia) (1971)

31) Order of Friendship of Nations (Soviet Union)
32) Medaille zur Stärkung der Waffenbrüderschaft 1. Klasse (CSSR) (1970) ("Brotherhood in Arms" medal)
33) Medaille der Waffenbrüderschaft in Gold (Hungary) (1979) ("Brotherhood in Arms" medal)

34) Medaille der Waffenbrüderschaft (Bulgaria) (1975) ("Brotherhood in Arms" medal)
35) Medaille für 20 Jahre Treue Dienste in der Nationalen Volksarmee (Long Service Medal, National People's Army)
36) Medaille für 15 Jahre Treue Dienste in der Nationalen Volksarmee (Long Service Medal, National People's Army)
37) Medaille für 10 Jahre Treue Dienste in der Nationalen Volksarmee (Long Service Medal, National People's Army)

38) Medaille für 5 Jahre Treue Dienste in der Nationalen Volksarmee (Long Service Medal, National People's Army)
39) Medaille für Treue Dienste in der Kasernierten Volkspolizei (Long Service Medal in "barracks police", before National People's Army)

I have posted this before (http://gmic.co.uk/topic/8319-my-first/), but I thought, after more than ten years, it would be worthwhile to post it here in better order. Also, there is some new information.

This is the ribbon bar of Admiral Wilhelm Ehm (1918-2009), who was Chief of the GDR People's Navy from 1959-61 and 1963-87. The photo shows him wearing his bar (not this particular, but a similar one), between 1981 and 1983.  

Just picking up on this old thread. Dave: Where did you get the information about Bundeswehr service for Hans Boelsen from? According to my sources, he did not join the BW, but correct me if I am wrong. 

What bothers me most is not the precedence, but the absence of a long service award, for some who was both in DSWA and WW1 and had two FA medals.

Ok, agreed! Makes sense. I guess his Mauritius-Lazarus must be hidden by his uniform lapel then. 

Hm. I see your point, Glenn. However, how do you account for the officer's cross of the BMVO? Did Moser have one before his 2nd cl and still wore it?

Yes, that is correct, the Major was very active in some Freikorps. The Silesian Eagle 1st cl he is wearing is the more uncommon type, with the swords above the badge. 

The cross to the left of the Silesian Eagle is the Annaberg Cross, which was created in 1931. So that narrows down the time frame for the picture further: between 1931 and 1934. The badge at the bottom left is a bit more tricky, I guess it is one of the Berlin Freikorps awards (Berliner Selbstschutz or similar).

The rectangular badge which most of them are wearing is the Prince Alfons Commemorative Badge. 

The General standing next to the Crown Prince is

Generalmajor Otto Staubwasser (1866-1949)

He is wearing the Officer's Cross to the Bavarian MMO, the version with swords, awarded during WW1 (in his case, on 12.10.1917 as Oberst and Battalion commander of the 2nd IR). On his tunic is also the Officer's Cross of the Mecklenburg Greifenorden. The combination of these two awards makes him identifiable. There would have been a second candidate, Generalmajor Georg Steinbauer, however he had a Prussian Red Eagle with swords. Staubwasser has a Red Eagle on his bar, but that one is clearly without swords.