webr55

New information has surfaced on Kästner, who died recently (http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=24481). He was Saxon and was drafted after his Abitur in 1918 into an infantry unit, but did apparently not make it to the front. He also said that his commander was "Stallmeister" of the King of Saxony, whoever that might have been.

I cannot find a fitting Hauck in the Saxon army. However, it could have been Erwin Haucke, 1920 Hauptmann aD and St. Henry winner, originally from FAR 32.

According to British intelligence 1918, 331st was raised from V. Armeekorps area.

Which makes it Silesian/Posen.

What a fine bar! Especially the lack of an 1870/71 might ID him.

Chris,

given that he was born in 1890 it seems unlikely that he would have been appointed as a Zahlmeister before 1921. The most junior Reichsheer Zahlmeister in 1922 (born 1891) was promoted to that rank in 1921. Wilhelm Manger is not listed as either a Zahlmeister or Unterzahlmeister in 1922.

Regards

Glenn

Aha, interesting information! So that makes it believable that he stayed in the Reichsheer during all the Weimar time, yet was not listed before TR.

BTW, does anyone know whether IR 331 had a Bremen connection?

Hmmmm,

after taking a second, and a third, and a fourth look,

I have to admit Sascha appears to be right. The shades misled me.

And the stamp:

Here's his signature from the 1917 postcard:

That's 25 and 12 (I am paying attention today, Sascha! ) after the Hindenburg. He probably first went into the army some time 1908-10 as a draftee who re-enlisted as a Kapitulant for NCO service, and then got promoted into the glacially slow paymaster corps. He mustn't have had the Abitur education that enabled higher promotions.

That's right. I'm not sure what he had but definitely not Abitur. Thanks for confirming the 25+12, I couldn't tell.

Actually, Bremen was my first thought, but the shape of the cross on the medal bar confirmed otherwise.

I looked in the 1914 Prussian ranklist, the Army Honor Ranklist, the 1924 ranklist and the 1939 and I can not find a Zahlmeister with the last name of Manger.

Right. He was not yet commissioned in 1914, maybe not even during WW1. Zahlmeister-Stellvertreter was a wartime-introduced rank for NCOs.

Reichsheer and WH Beamten are invisible in the usual ranklists, but Glenn found him in the Beamten-Rangliste 1939.

In 1942, he was Stabszahlmeister in Wehrkreis XI (Hannover). It seems he did not serve at the front during WW2.

His final rank was Oberstabsintendant with seniority 1.5.1944. That was after the reorganisation of Beamten etc. ranks who became "Offiziere im Truppensonderdienst". Oberstabsintendant was the equivalent of Major.

On the day the US troops entered Braunschweig, he drove to my grandparents' hometown (where he used to play as a child) and shot himself in his full uniform.

Close-up of the ribbon bar confirms the War Aid Cross and two DAs. The buttonhole ribbon must be a KVK2:

I'm not sure if he has the 25+12 or the 18+4 in this picture.

This second photo shows him in October 1941:

Close-up:

Here are some pics of a relative of mine: Wilhelm Manger, Imperial and TR Zahlmeister.

Born 17.5.1890 in Engelnstedt

From a postcard he sent to my grandmother in 1917, I know he served as Zahlmeister-Stellvertreter in IR 331 at the Russian front. I have no promotion dates from WW1 and don't know whether he served in the Reichsheer (though I THINK he did). From the photo below I know he got the EK 2 1914 and the War Aid Cross.

I find him again (thanks to Glenn and the Deutsche Dienststelle) as Stabszahlmeister with seniority 1.6.1935 in Ersatz-Kp. Jäger-Reg. 33 (Braunschweig??).

In 1939, he was Stabszahlmeister in Panzer-Abwehr-Abteilung 31 (Braunschweig), in September 1939 in "Stab und Nachrichtenzug Panzer-Abwehr-Ersatz-Abt. 13 (Braunschweig)".

This picture dates from September 1939 and shows him standing behind his father (and next to my great-grandmother):

And German Handelsmarine Oberleutnant zur See.

Very similar looking to the first ones Chris posted

Yes, these are the same. So that is West-German Handelsmarine. Thanks for posting!

Chris

Hermann Erythropel got his Dr. jur. from the University of G?ttingen in 1898.

It seems that there were more books in this series. I have found books for Crews 1905, 1907, 1912, 1913 and 1914, and I guess that there were even more, probably for each year. They are however hard to get.

I can assure you they are definetely not Bundesmarine. They must be Handelsmarine, (Merchant navy) from the engineering branch.

Thanks!

I've seen that, too. What lunatic is that??

Makes me consider giving up on spotting fake bars!!

And it went for

1626 euro.

Ahhh, never seen that photo before.

I always thought that the officer device was the rosette, as on Sascha's recent bar.

Yup. Definitely a 12 and 4 pair. Perfect 1/2 height bar with brass backing-- which is CORRECT for that style-- note the stamped "C" catch.

That is the device for an OFFICER of the Order of the Crown of Italy, which fits with length of service.

Admiral Lietzmann got his as a Korvettenkapit?n before the war:

Is it certain that Lietzmann got the officer grade? He was already FregKap by 1935, and the commander grade was awarded from this level on.

Now what about the crown device? I think it indicates a commander grade of the Italian crown order, though the correct device would have been two small crowns, if I remember correctly.

Here's the crown in all its glory:

The back:

Yes, there is a problem: The second DA eagle has been replaced. It must originally have been silver, which means 12-17 years of service. You cannot have had 25+ years and no WW1 service.

The replacement is confirmed by the fact that while all the other devices are very tightly attached (they don't move at all), the second eagle is quite loose. Most probably, the original eagle had fallen off, and someone very carefully replaced it by a golden one.

My most recent pick-up is this Luftwaffe ribbon bar:

EK 2 1939, 2x Lw DA, Sudeten, Spanish Medalla de la Campana, and a commander grade order.