webr55

Here's a picture of this award from the recent Thies auction: The bar of British Dr. Charles Galton.

I should say that the proper name is "Kronenorden 4. Klasse am Erinnerungsband".

BTW, the backing color is black.

The back.

I think #4 is a Hindenburg, because otherwise he would have been 70+ when being awarded the 1920s Fire Service Cross.

If so, what kind of career are we looking at? The Crown Order suggests someone officer level, but probably only in civilian, not in military life.

Here's another recent purchase I made. A HUGE ribbon bar with 25mm ribbons. The most interesting thing are the two "sanitary" ribbons (Sanitätsbänder) in front. I think the decorations are:

1) Crown Order 4th on sanitary ribbon (awarded pre-WW1?)

2) War Aid Cross

3) LS decoration, maybe an LD2

4) probably a non-com Hindenburg (OR is it an 1870/71 medal?)

5) Red Cross medal 3rd cl

6) Prussian Fire Service Cross (1920s)

7) Centenary

Those letters are a very interesting insight into Buchert's personal circumstances. Apparently he was simply broke, and had failed to pay his rent in Mannheim, which was deemed unsuitable for the Wehrmacht commander of this town. Also, his wife was pregnant and ill and had apparently held back some letters to Buchert. In short, he was considered as having not enough leadership qualities.

Interesting he was immediately recalled as commander of the important training area Hammelburg - there were rear-area posts with much less responsibilities.

BTW, that ribbon bar should of course not go with the tunic!

That's a veteran piece, look here:

Don't know what the award looks like, though.

AHA!!!

There is the EXCEPTION to every rule-- didn't even LOOK there because

"all Paymasters with RAO4/KO4 had long service awards..."

Exactly!

I skipped the Paymasters as well. Only when looking through the Beamten RL, I payed attention to the missing LS.

Thanks!

Chris

Rick: Can you find him in the MOH directories? Or are officials not in there?

BTW, how many Generalfeldmarschall/Generaloberst (or equivalent) bars have we got on this forum? There is Rick with one part of a D?nitz bar, and someone's got GenOb Otto Dessloch's medal bar. Any others?

#2: A yet unidentified ( ) LW officer - 2nd eagle replaced, might have been silver originally.

His picture shows him wearing both the HHOX AND the EK Spange on his buttonhole ribbon.

I've got two ribbon bars with the HHOX. #1: Generalmajor Hermann Voigt-Ruscheweyh (device unfortunately missing).

Close-up doesn't get better than this.

Here's a picture I found somewhere. An unknown LW Major with HHOX, WF and Meiningen.

A very nice bar! Never seen that as a mini before!

The Beamtenrangliste was a good idea, and even better the 1914 one, showing the foreign prewar awards!

There is one good candidate in there, and one only:

Wilhelm Landwehr, born 24.10.1861 in Wilhelmshaven. Entered Navy 10.1880. Zahlmeister 15.4.1890, Oberzahlmeister 11.6.1894, Stabszahlmeister 11.4.1905. In 1914, he is attached to the Inspektion der Marine-Infanterie and holds an RAO4, KO4, RussSt3. No LS award! His DOA entry confirms the Centenary and the China Medal. The only thing that is not confirmed is the DSWA, but maybe it was awarded after the DOA came out. A.D. as char. Marine-Oberstabszahlmeister 30.6.1921 and alive in 1930. He was living in Kiel in 1908 and 1914.

The RL 1918 adds a non-com EK and an OFA2.

Congratulations already!

I think this is one of the "highest-ranking" bars we have had on our forum!

Chris

BTW, if a Reichsmarineamt official, what level would he have to be? Would a Rechnungsrat be enough for an RAO4/KO4 combination?

I was thinking of something along these lines:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=19280

I hope it was not a salesman's sample, some of which turned up recently!

I agree with two steel versions. But who would those unprovable suspects be, without an XXV? Or what if Westerkamp got the RSt between May and August 1914?

A Reichsmarineamt official who might even have had 25 years by 1914 - that could explain the missing LS. But did those get the Centenary? Or would he have to serve around 1897 and then go into a Beamten career?

That is a hard call. Did you also look through engineer's? To properly research a china medal you need the 1900 Navy RL. That way you could also he if the person ship was involved in China.

The problem with engineers is that they invariably have LS decorations. And with an RAO4, he cannot have had only an NCO LS old-style brooch. All engineers with the RAO already have the XXV.

I found Westerkamp and Metzing in the 1900 RL. Solger's not in there however, I wonder what he did in 1900.

BTW, IF this was a Crown Order Medal, I suppose it would come BEFORE the Allg. Ehrenzeichen?

The back:

This should be an officer in between circa 1891 and 1897, with no XXV in 1914. I looked through Navy ranklists 1904 and 1908-1914 but could not really spot him. I have four vague, not very good candidates, though:

1) Siegfried Westerkamp, RAO4mKr (Crown maybe not worn), KO4 as KorvKap per 1914. Seems to have been in China on "Bussard", though the DOA shows no China medal. BUT: No proof of St. Stanislaus. During WW1 chief of staff of the U-Boat flottilla. 1920 aD as Kap zS.

2) Metzing, RAO4, RSt2 (might have been worn as Kleindekoration) as KorvKap per 1913. Lt zS 25.10.97. No proof of KO4. In 1900 on torpedo boats D1 and D8. He was killed as captain of the first German naval airship in 1913, so not in further RLs.

3) Dr. Theodor Sohler, born 9.5.1874 in Mannheim. RAO4, RSt3X as Oberstabsarzt per 1914. DOA shows Centenary and RSt3X. No proof of KO4, but went aD 13.10.1914. Dr. med. in Berlin 23.7.1897. Can't find him in 1900 RL, strange. Char MarGeneralOA 27.4.21.

4) General question: Could this have been a Deckoffizier, who wore this bar together with his old-style LS brooch before 1913? Is this possible at all? If so, there is only one candidate: Obermaschinist Biederstedt, per 1914: AllgEhrenzeichen, Crown Order MEDAL, XV and Russian St. Stanislaus MEDAL.

Any ideas about this case? Maybe anything on China assignment of #2 and #3?

Thanks

Chris

This is my first trapezoid ribbon bar. This style was worn on pre-WW1 'monkey jackets'.

However, I thought this one would be easy to ID:

1) RAO4

2) KO4

3) DSWA medal

4) China medal

5) Centenary

6) Russian St. Stanislaus