webr55

GenMaj v. MERTENS

Friedrich Holtz:

and your Honor Legion bar?

Removed:

This time with back:

Another one of yours from the same thread, not ID'd so far:

Here is Graf Stillfried und Rattonitz:

(Sorry, don't have the back.)

That is unbelievable. Your have my deepest sympathy!

This EK in wear:

(More information here.)

EK2 of Leutnant d.L. Ludwig Weszkalnies:

Oh no is all I can say.

This ribbon bar lot is a particular crime - I already thought that.

TerryG said:

Is that Von Pappen?

Yes, definitely Franz von Papen.

What does the REST of that Tamara document look like?

No idea. Zeige does not show more.

And finally the Simon Petlyura thing. Heiko, that belongs on your bar!!!

BTW, whoever fiddled with the bar and removed the Simon Petlyura also switched the places of the Tirol and Austrian commemorative medals.

Here is the 1957 St. Nikolaus doc. He must have been still riding high post-WW2, not uncommon for an attorney.

Rick Research said:

Which version of Tamara document?

Can you post those?

I find absolutrely NOTHING on the guy.

I have been working from the assumption that he was a Bavarian ("Christmas 1918" medal, gilt instead of issue black) but getting nowhere from that angle.

ANY clues as to his origins, ranks at paperwork issue times and so on would be most welcome.

I can't even imagine how he could have gotten that Marianerkreuz.

According to the documents, he was born in Berlin. There was a publishing house Sayffaerth in Berlin at that time, maybe he was connected to that.

He was Lt dR still in 1920. The 1932 exile-Ukraine doc and the 1957 (!) doc show him as Major. Obviously dR, since he was a state attorney. But he must have been high up in some organisation - maybe SA?

Here is the Tamara doc scan from Zeige:

Whats the next to last on the second bar, which is missing now?

THAT is the Cross of "Simon Petlyura", awarded to "Major Sayffaerth" by the (exiled) Ukrainian government in 1932.

How do I know that? The thing is being sold by Zeige, along with a Russian St. Nikolaus exile order, awarded in 1957 to Major Sayffaerth, ------ and his Tamara (with document)!

I can confirm his name:

DR. Gerhard Wolfgang SAYFFAERTH

got a doctorate in law from the University of Cologne on 28.11.1924. His dissertation was about "Das Risiko im Arbeitsverhältnis unter besonderer Berücksichtigung der neueren Rechtsprechung und des Arbeitsvertragsgesetzentwurfes".

What a weird bunch of awards!

What's the biographical story on this guy?

I only know that he was a Lt (probably dR) in WW1, and Freikorps fighter. Later a state attorney, but he must have done more. Heiko, do you know anything else?

Incredible group! And we would never have found him, without documentation!

He's even got the St. Tammy - don't they all have to be delivered to Rick??

So the middle ribbon bar was his first one, pre-WW2. Then he must have worn the top one - a 26 place bar!! Here the last two ribbons (??? and Portuguese Red Cross) look improvised, apparently they didn't have these in stock. And is that an Ostvolk in #13? Not too common either.

Now the third bar was, I guess, his last one - after Bulgaria and Finland changed sides! He even dropped Turkey, who became an enemy during the last days of the war.

Fantastic!

I have finally been able to scan the entire photo. Now the Zvonimir can be seen clearly.

However, I got the name incorrect, it is Egon BÖNNER (1901-1981). He was chief of the military administration in Serbia in 1941, which was apparently a General-equivalent rank.

webr55, Braunschweig long service crosses existed from 1833 to 1886. There was a 25-year cross for officers, a 25-year and a 20-year cross for NCOs and enlisted, a 15-year Schnalle (clasp) for NCOs and enlisted, and from 1836-79, a 10-year Schnalle for NCOs and enlisted. In 1879, the NCO system was revised, with a 21-year silver cross and a 9-year Schnalle. I assume after 1886 they used Prussian DAs.

Thanks, I mixed things up. I had the new NCO awards in mind, given out from 1879-1886. They indeed switched to the Prussian DAs after that.

The precedence is odd. Why would a Braunschweiger place a Braunschweig long service cross ahead of an Iron Cross and a Prussian Crown Order, but place a Braunschweig lifesaving medal after them?

My thoughts exactly, but the bar looks quite good. So maybe he thought "crosses first, medals last"? And Brunswick precedence WITHIN these categories?

On the question of whether an officer's or NCO's bar, maybe a stupid question, but is there any reason to rule out an RAO2?

A Brunswick General? There cannot have been many with a Brunswick DA. But I think he would have had at least a PKO3, wouldn't he?

Great bar! How many Brunswick Lifesaving Medals are out there? Anyone have an example on a bar?

I'm not too familiar with the Brunswick LS awards. They were given out only for a very short time in the 1880s, right? So this would be a long-serving NCO, who ultimately got a PKO4, after his retirement? (And died before 1897.)

Probably not an officer, as he would have had at least a RAO4, after 25 yrs of service.

BTW, why no pure Brunswick precedence? Why the lifesaving medal at #5?

I am not convinced this is a Navy guy, with this backing. The combination seems to suggest Navy, but it might also be an Army, General staff type.

IF he was Navy: There are only 18 Navy holders of the Zähringen 1st cl listed. Of these, the only possibility is

Gustav von Stosch, entered Navy in 1894, discharged as char. Kap. zS in 1920. The awards seem to match: In 1918, he holds the EK1, RAO4, HHOX, L?beck and Oldenburg. So only Hamburg and TWM are missing.

HOWEVER: He is listed in the DOA 1908/09 with only RAO4 and Centenary... BUT NO China medal!

So I believe it is not him.

I think we have to turn to Army.

Paul Ochs is listed in the DOA 1908/09 as Baurat and Kreisbauinspektor in Quedlinburg. At that time, he only held the RAO4.