webr55

Yes, I am convinced this one is real.

Backside with small damage.

Paul,

I think we might have the same type. It is not one of those shown by Steve. Detlev sold one of these some time ago, maybe I can find the scan.

Regards

Chris

stogieman said:

Having owned several Bavarian groups with these awards and documents in them, I can assure you many of the recipients of these considered them quite "official"

Certainly. Otto Dessloch's bar had two of these on it, I think.

BTW, this came with the bar, they were supposed to belong together. Well, maybe.

webr55 refers to the Crown Prince Ruprecht medal as unofficial. Can someone tell me why.

Bob,

the medal was given out by the Crown Prince to his faithful ones in Weimar times, well into the 1930s. So obviously not a state award, but a dynastic one.

Regards

Chris

Yeah, I remember the pic. That was the one which proved that the Saxon habit was not just a Saxon one, right?

So Weitze had more of this guy?? Was there a two-rows set among them? I actually got mine, of all places, from Spain!

Sadly, I don't have the bottom row. I hope it turns up somewhere eventually, because it should be recognizable as having:

2x long service, Hungarian Commem, and three others. I would guess a Sudeten and ???

I still am unsure what guy we are looking at. A Zahlmeister, maybe, who stayed into WM? Got the Bavarian Cross, rather, maybe as an Unterzahlmeister?

It took me months to see that!! Normally the dynastic awards should go behind long service, but this proud Bavarian ignored regulations.

Here, courtesy of Stogie-Rick, is the matching set on astroturf:

I really like finding about something new about your old bars. Some time ago, I showed this bar on another forum. But now I think I see it in a different light!

1) EK2 1914

2) Bavarian Military Merit Order 4th class?? OR Cross?? w/ crown am 'Beamtenband'

3) Hindenburg

4) Bavarian 1905 or 1911 Jubilee

5) Crownprince Rupprecht unofficial medal (thanks Stogie-Rick!)

6) Bavarian unofficial 1918 Golden Wedding Jubilee medal

I am curious: Has anyone already seen what the point is regarding this bar?!

Remember, this is the Eastern Front, not Stuttgart. Anyone recognize the brewerei?

Beer is classic Schultheiss!

A miniature stickpin for a Brunswick soldier who missed out on the EK 1914:

Great bars!

Rick, I have never seen that mini star before! I suppose that was meant for lapel bows originally?

Closeup of the halfmoon:

Nothing particularly special, but I like ribbon bars with the halfmoon device. Here's mine:

Anyone else?

I don't know if I can do that or not, it may be technilogically too advanced for me!

[attachmentid=13993]

Thanks Mike,

but it's not the Life Saving Medal. The center looks the same, but mine has additional yellow and red stripes on the border.

The idea about the 1914 clasp also occurred to me... however shouldn't that be on the 1916+ pic?

Well, the General MIGHT have removed the oaks himself, but this thing has definitely been messed with or mishandled: The Paris bar is missing a prong, for example.

Also, I think there is only one set of holes.

Really nice, your Obstfelder!!

Thanks for your comments!

When posting this, I did NOT know about the recent thread by Deruelle asking for a photo ID. What a coincidence! BTW, I would guess that - the postcard being from 1916 - this pic was taken when he was awarded the BMV2X star.

Rick, I agree, this is really a good example for showing the spectrum shifts!

Again, I could never have found him without Daniel!

The photo dates ca. 1916-1919: He was awarded the BMV2 with star and X on 3.3.1916.

Some questions remain, however:

1) What is the last ribbon???

2) Has anyone got more pics of him? Or more info?

3) The pic shows loops for two more breast stars, but which ones could these be?

4) Finally, what do you think: Should I replace the 25yr oakleaves?

Regards

Chris

Here again, pic and bar in same size:

Obviously, this being a wartime pic, he is wearing only a reduced set of his awards.

So here's some info on him:

Friedrich Wilhelm Nikolaus Alfred von Besser

Born 1854

Sekonde-Lt ?.?.1871 (probably just reached Paris before the war was over)

Premier-Lt ca. 1880

Hauptmann ca. 1886

Major 27.1.1894 Uu

Oberstleutnant 18.8.1900 F

Oberst 27.1.1903 P

Generalmajor 14.4.1907 H

z.D. 1910 as char. Generalleutnant

recalled with Patent als Generalleutnant 1914

last cdr of the 205. Infanterie-Division

Died 16.5.1919 in Berlin

He spent most of the earlier part of his career in the Garde-Schützen-Bataillon (GSB). In 1889, he even published a history of this unit. And during the 1870s, one of his officer colleagues in the GSB was a then still unknown Hauptmann named Paul v. Beneckendorff und v. Hindenburg...

In 1900, he can be found as cdr of the Garde-Jäger-Bataillon, later cdr of IR115 before his final peacetime position as cdr of the 42. Inf-Brigade in 1907.

And here's what the bar does not show:

RAO2mEmX, KO2, Johanniter Rechtsritter, BMV2X with star, Hessian Philipp (Cdr), Mecklenburg Griffin (Honor Cross), Italian Crown Order (Cdr), Dutch Oranien Nassau (Cdr), Austrian FJ (Cdr), Persian Sun and Lion (Cdr)

So - thanks to Daniel - may I introduce to you:

Generalleutnant Alfred von Besser (1854-1919)

The ribbons are:

EK2 1870 (with missing 25 yr oakleaves), XXV, KDM 1870 with (only 1!) clasp "Paris", 1897 Cent., Anhalt FriedrichX, Lippe War MeritX, Hessian Bravery, Schaumburg-Lippe War MeritX, Hamburg Hanseaten

- and something that still completely escapes me in last place

RAO and KO moved up to the neck, so must have been a general before 1914. The style of the bar is weird, mostly seen on Austrian bars - but this was not an Austrian. Why he chose this style still remains a mystery.

It was clear that he could only be ID'd through a photo. And here's where Daniel came in: He and I were both going through the ranklists and had several dozens of suspects left.

BUT - however improbable it may seem - Daniel found a photo.

A photo with a ribbon bar.

No, not just some bar - but THIS VERY bar:

Gentlemen,

Recently, I was fortunate to acquire this bar, which was discussed more than three years ago on another forum by some of you (remember it?):

This piece was actually lying in a small box under a lot of crap, but I thought it must be special. Now here's the backside:

It became clear that, while the last ribbons were added at some point, the bar had to be REAL. And it had to belong to someone who held only commander grades of his more important awards and crammed all others onto his bar.

Aaargghhhh!!!

Red Eagle 3rd with bow and crown to a pre-1914 Oberst!! Must have been 80++ in WW2!