IrishGunner

Thanks Ulsterman This insight into one unit certainly helps put into perspective award combinations.

I am also thinking that the initials "AM" are actually initials of the medal's designer rather than a makersmark - which really would be Egana. Not sure what that means to the whole varient story - just thinking out loud. :rolleyes:

Type 4b / obverse = AM under the dragon claw / reverse = INDUSTRIAS EGA?A around the shield + AM under the end of eagle wing. Reverse:

Type 4b / obverse = AM under the dragon claw / reverse = INDUSTRIAS EGA?A around the shield + AM under the end of eagle wing. Obverse:

Received this one as a present from my kids this past Christmas; we took a family trip to Barcelona in Feb 2008 and that is where they bought it - at a flea market. After reading this thread, I've identified it as Antonio's Type 4b / obverse = AM under the dragon claw / reverse = INDUSTRIAS EGA?A around the shield + AM under the end of eagle wing. I'll post images, but my photography isn't the best. Always learning, this thread also helped me identify this as a non-combatant's ribbon with green stripes (thanks to Antonio's website); now I have to find the black stripe combatant version.

I picked these up at a flea market during a Christmas 2008 trip to Berlin; nothing special, but for the cost of a couple beers, somethng interesting for me since I actually got them in Berlin. A few years ago (2005 I think) I picked up a "5 Years" including the box as another flea market purchase in Berlin; however, that one is back in the US - so I can't include a photo. Thanks to this thread I am able to identify the "15 Years" as a Type 8 - (1986-90) and the "10 Years" as a Type 10 - (1986-90). I didn't realize before reading this thread that there even were type/production year differences. Also after I took the photo I noticed that the NVA medal ribbons overlaps to the right, but the ZV medal's ribbon overlaps to the left. After checking out a few other internet pics, all the NVA medals overlap to the right; but I've seen ZV medals overlap both left and right. Interestingly, the ZV medal posted by Ed Haynes in the Zivilverteidigung thread in this same forum has the ribbon going to the left; however, on the accompanying award document, the medal's illustration goes to the right.

Thanks everyone! Especially for the photos; I will have to start trolling photos myself for examples. Ulsterman - "Bavarian artillery" - Nice and interesting info on one battery. Someday I just might put Bav arty as a sub-focus area.

This is probably a simple question; but as a newbie to collecting groups and ribbon bars, I have a simple question... I often see groups/ribbon bars together with the EK and a German State bravery decoration (such as the Wuerttemberg Merit Medal, Bavaria Merit Cross, or Baden Medal). However, how common would be a group and/or ribbon bar with only the State decoration and no EK? (Again, forgive the newbie question...)

This just arrived today - a recent purchase; an un-official patch for the anti-aircraft artillery units posted to Thule Greenland Air Base. My wife's father was posted here in the mid-50s with the US Army. Unfortunately, he died this past June; I thought it would be a nice thing to assemble some things related to his time in the Army for her. Of course, I know nothing about this patch and just stumbled upon it while scrolling artillery related objects; I suspect it is from a later period - 60s or 70s. Anyone have any knowledge about these sort of things? Or anything about the anti-aircraft artillery units at Thule. (I have to check his service documents to see if they have the exact unit to which he was assigned - but they are in Flordia, very far from Poland.)

I'm looking particularly for location of subordinate batteries around the dates of June-July 1917. What I already know: Was part of CLXXIII (East Ham) Brigade: War Raised Unit; Formed at East Ham in 1915 and consisted of A, B, C and D Batteries; 36th (Ulster) Division. The Division moved to France 3-6 Oct 1915; Divisional Artillery remained in England until November 1915. My interest revolves around KIA 3 July 1917 Gunner William J. Marsh, L/22283 RFA: CWGC - [in Memory of Gunner W J MARSH, 22283, "B" Bty. 173rd Bde., Royal Field Artillery, who died on 03 July 1917; Husband of Mrs. H. E. Marsh, of 34, Peacock St., Newington Butts, London. Remembered with honor LONE TREE CEMETERY.] {This cemetery was started in June 1917 after the first day of the Battle of Messines, it contains the burials of 88 men, many of whom served with the Royal Irish Rifles, 36th (Ulster) Division, most of these men were tragically killed when they left their trench early and were killed by the blast and debris from the detonation of the Lone Tree mine. This cemetery stands close to the Lone Tree Crater, now renamed the 'Pool of Peace'.} Given Marsh's connection to the LONE TREE CEMETARY, his unit most probably participated in the 36th Div's action during the Battle of Messines, 7-14 Jun 1917. His death was a couple weeks later, but I've found no significant action on 3 July. Anything of help regarding the unit history, locations, rosters etc of the 173rd Bde RFA (especially B Battery) would be appreciated.

I visited these graves once when I was posted to Fort Drum in the mid-90s. When I was posted to Fort Bliss in the mid-80s I discovered that my headquarters building was built on top of what had been the old POW camp garbage dump. We discovered this one day when work crews were excavating to repair some old sewage lines. At the time, I was not really a militaria collector; however, there was a major in our headquarters that collected. One afternoon he came in to the HQ all excited with a bucket full of very awful smelling stuff - old hats, canteens and rotting booklets - everything he found in the pit being dug outside. Of course, these were items from the POW camp. We thougt he was quite crazy. And we were certain his wife wouldn't be pleased with his "treasures." Now I kinda wish I had taken a look in that pit too... :rolleyes:

Sons of JS Carter: THE LONDON GAZETTE, 27 .AUGUST, 1937: The under mentioned Gentlemen Cadets from the Royal Military Academy, to be 2nd Lts. 26th Aug. 1937: ? ROYAL REGIMENT OF ARTILLERY. William Arthur Cavendish CARTER. {Eldest son} SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 26 APRIL, 1940: The under mentioned Cadets, from 164th, 165th, 166th, 167th, 168th, and 170th O.C.T.U., to be 2nd Lts. except as otherwise stated. 20th Apr. 1940:? Rifle Bde. Godfrey James CARTER (129598). {Second son} Newsletter of the Commonwealth Association of Legislative Counsel, October 2003, pp. 38-40 (edited version of obituary that was published in the London Times 8 Aug 2003): Godfrey James Carter died on 28 July 2003, aged 84. Although he never made The Guinness Book of Records, he clearly deserves a place as the drafter of what was at the time the longest Act passed in the history of the British Parliament, the 600-page Companies Act 1985. But that Act was only one of four Acts that resulted from his efforts in consolidating the mass of statute law dealing with companies and the like. Before becoming a parliamentary counsel, Godfrey had gained considerable commercial experience, which is almost certainly why he was asked to work on the companies? legislation. Godfrey was born shortly before the end of the First World War. His father, a captain in the Grenadier Guards, was killed in action. Godfrey was educated at Eton, where he was a King?s Scholar, and won a scholarship to Magdalene College, Cambridge, in modern languages. During the Second World War, Godfrey served in the Middle East with the Rifle Brigade and rose to the rank of captain. After having been twice wounded, he was discharged in 1944. After the war, he returned to Cambridge University to study law. Despite being handicapped by his war wounds, he became becoming President of the Union. Later, he gained first class honors in the Bar examinations, obtained a Cambridge LLM, and was called to the Bar of the Inner Temple. In 1949, Godfrey left the Bar and entered the UK Office of Parliamentary Counsel. In 1972, he was promoted to full counsel after working as principal assistant to the First Parliamentary Counsel, Sir John Fiennes, on the Bill that enabled the United Kingdom to join the European Communities. From 1972 until his official retirement in 1979, Godfrey produced a number of Bills, including those for the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975, the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (which limited a contracting party?s power to negative liability for negligence or breach of contract), and the Nurses, Midwives and Health Visitors Act 1979. He also drafted the Public Lending Right Act 1979.It was as a bold and modernizing drafter of consolidating Acts that Godfrey will be mostly remembered. He produced the Criminal Appeal Act 1968, which brought order and intelligibility to a very tangled corner of the criminal justice system; the Firearms Act 1968, for which he devised new ways for setting out the penalties for firearms offences and for prosecuting those offences. After his retirement, Godfrey continued to draft on a freelance basis and was given the job of consolidating the UK Companies Acts. It was after he had completed this project that he was awarded the CBE (Commander, Order of the British Empire). Godfrey?s war wounds eventually caught up with him and his wounded leg had to be amputated, an event that he seems to have accepted philosophically and without complaint. Godfrey is survived by his wife Cynthia and by their three sons.

Brother of JS Carter: MIC of Carter, Richard Thellusson: No corps listed, Second Lieutenant; Royal Garrison Artillery, Major. GWGC: CARTER, R T; Nationality: United Kingdom; Rank: Major; Regiment/Service: Royal Garrison Artillery; Unit Text: 11th Siege Bty.; Date of Death: 18/08/1918; Awards: M C; Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead; Cemetery: HEATH CEMETERY, HARBONNIERES. {Brother} Major Richard Thellusson Carter, MC, RGA: Born on 2 Aug 1893, the son of T. J. P. Carter, Asst. Master at Eton College from 1906 to 1912 (Tomline Select, 1911; Prizeman, 1912; College Wall, 1911). Gentleman Cadet, Royal Military Academy, 1912. Commissioned as a 2nd Lieut., RGA, 17 July 1914. At the beginning of the war he was serving in Malta, Lieut, RGA, 9 Jun 1915; Adjutant, RA, from 5 Feb 1917 to 27 June 1917; Acting Captain, RGA, 7 July 1917; Mentioned in Dispatches, LG 23 Dec 18 for service with 11 Siege Bty, RGA. In 1918 was an Acting Major and Officer Commanding, 11th Siege Battery, RGA. On 18 Aug 18 he died of wounds received in action at Harbonneires. His older brother, Capt. John Shuckburgh Carter, 1st Bn, Grenadier Guards was Killed in Action on 27 Sept 1918. [sources: Eton College Register, Part VIII, 1909-1919; List of Etonians Who Fought in the Great War, 1914-1919; Eton Chronicles, 14 November 1918.] SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 26 JULY, 1918. War Office, 26th July, 1918. His Majesty the KING has been graciously pleased to approve of the following Awards to the under mentioned Officers and Warrant Officers, in recognition of their gallantry and devotion to duty in the Field: ? AWARDED THE MILITARY CROSS. Capt. Richard Thellusson Carter, R.G.A. For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. He was in command of a battery which was being heavily shelled when a premature from an adjoining battery caused casualties. While remaining at the guns and keeping them continuously in action, his coolness and disregard of personal danger were of great value in maintaining the moral of his own and neighboring batteries. RT Carter is remembered on the Wittersham War Memorial, Kent. [roll-of-honour.com] RT Carter: Birth 1893 in Eton reg. dist., Buckinghamshire, England. Grandfather: Carter, Thomas Thellusson (1808-1901) Rector of Clewer, and well-known Anglican scholar. Father: John Proctor Carter (MA Math), Assistant Master of Eton College. [internet sources]

James Shuckburgh Carter?s descendants are referenced in the 1999 edition of Burke's Peerage (p. 839) and in the 1962 edition of Debrett's (p. 381) on his wife?s account (Diana Violet Gladys Cavendish) - two sons: William Arthur Cavendish Carter, OBE (b. 1917) (a retired Lieut. Col, RA) and Godfrey James Carter (b. posthumous 1919) (saw service as Rifle Brigade Captain in the Middle East 1939-45). James' parents were John Procter Carter (1842 - 1899) of Eton College and Isabel Mary Drew; John Proctor Carter's parents ware Rev Thomas Thellusson Carter (1808-1901) and Mary Anne Gould. There is an entry on the Dictionary of National Biography (Oxford University Press) for Rev. Thomas Thellusson Carter. Also I am told that Venn's Alumni Cantabrigienses has details of the members of the Carter family who attended Cambridge. Shuckburgh Carter had two sisters - Helen Isabel Carter (Mrs. Edward Maitland MURRAY) and Kathleen Agnes Carter (Mrs. Betram George BUCHANAN), and a brother - Richard Thellusson Carter (b. 1893), Major, 11th Siege Battery 14th Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery (RGA), who died 18th August 1918; he was awarded the Military Cross. [Courtesy of BrianShuckburgh.] Violet Gladys Diana Cavendish; Born 6 February 1887 Eastbourne; Married 16 April 1914; James Shuckburgh Carter (Died 27 September 1918 in France in battle); Died 27 Jul 1962. {Gen. XIII-209 (XII-110-1)} [worldroots.com] Brother of Violet Carter - Godfrey Lionel John Cavendish; Born 30 March 1884 Eastbourne; Died 22 December 1914 (in battle); Married 22 March 1911Cora Grace Graham Horsford, daughter of Joseph Alphonsus Horsford and Ada Mary Spark-Hall; Children, Generation XIV-282 [worldroots.com] MIC of Cavendish, Godfrey L J: Indian Army, Captain; 97th Deccan Infantry, Captain. CWGC: CAVENDISH, GODFREY LIONEL JOHN; Initials: G L J; Nationality: Indian; Rank: Captain; Regiment/Service: 97th Deccan Infantry; Secondary Regiment: 9th Bhopal Infantry; Secondary Unit Text: attd. 1st Bn.; Age: 31; Date of Death: 22/12/1914; Additional information: Son of Mr. J. J. Cavendish, of 19, Silverdale Rd., Eastbourne; Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead; Cemetery: LILLERS COMMUNAL CEMETERY. {Brother-in-law} THE LONDON GAZETTE, 5 JULY, 1912. India Office, July 5, 1912. The KING has approved of the promotion of the following officers of the Indian Army and Indian Subordinate Medical Department: ? INDIAN ARMY. Lieutenants to be Captains. Dated 22nd April, 1912. Godfrey Lionel John Cavendish, 97th Deccan Infantry.

The share of the Guards Division in the northern attack was to cross the Canal du Nord at Lock Seven, north of Havrincourt, on a front of a mile; then work through the complicated tangle of the Hindenburg support line directly east along the ridge from Flesqui?res village to Premy Chapel which stands at the junction of the roads from Noyelles, Marcoing, and Graincourt, and to consolidate on the line of the Marcoing?Graincourt road. Meantime, the Third Division on their right would take the village of Flesqui?res; the Fifty-second Division would take the Hindenburg Line that lay west of the Canal in the bend of it, and would then let the Sixty-third through who would swing down from the north and attend to Graincourt and Anneux villages. The total advance set for the Guards Division was three miles, but, if the operations were fully successful, they were to push on to the outskirts of Noyelles; the Third Division to Marcoing; while the Fifty-seventh, coming through the Sixty-third, would take Cantaing and Fontaine-Notre-Dame. In the Guards Division itself, the 2nd Brigade was to move off first, and ferret its way through a knot of heavily wired trenches that lay between them and the Canal, take the Hindenburg support trenches, and then form a defensive flank to the left of the next advance till the Fifty-second and Sixty-third Divisions should have secured Graincourt. The 1st Brigade would pass through them and capture the trenches across the Canal to the north and north-east of Flesqui?res. If resistance were not too strong, that brigade was to go on to the spur running from Flesqui?res to Cantaing, and help the Sixty-third turn the Graincourt line. The 3rd Brigade, passing through the 1st, would carry on and take the high ground round Premy Chapel. About noon, after many adventures, the 2nd Grenadiers arrived to carry on the advance, and Silver Street became a congested metropolis. The 2nd Grenadiers were hung up there for a while because, though the Third Division on the right had taken Flesqui?res, the Sixty-third on the left had not got Graincourt village, which was enfilading the landscape damnably. Orival Wood, too, was untaken, and the 1st Grenadiers, under Lord Gort, were out unsupported half a mile ahead on the right front somewhere near Premy Chapel. About half-past four in the afternoon a Guards Battalion?they thought it was the 1st Coldstream?came up on their left, and under cover of what looked like a smoke-barrage, cleared Orival Wood and silenced the two guns there. The Irish, from their dress-circle in Silver Street, blessed them long and loud, and while they applauded, Lieut.-Colonel Lord Gort, commanding the 1st Grenadiers, came down the trench wounded on his way to a dressing-station. He had been badly hit once before he thought fit to leave duty, and was suffering from loss of blood. The Irish had always a great regard for him, and that day they owed him more than they knew at the time, for it was the advance of the 1st Grenadiers under his leading, almost up to Premy Chapel, which had unkeyed the German resistance in Graincourt, and led the enemy to believe their line of retreat out of the village was threatened. The Second Division as it came through found the enemy shifting and followed them up towards Noyelles. So the day closed, and, though men did not realize, marked the end of organized trench-warfare for the Guards Division. [The Irish Guards in the Great War; Edited and Compiled from Their Diaries and Papers; Volume I, The First Battalion: 1923; Rudyard Kipling.]

From Ponsonby?s The Grenadier Guards in the Great War (courtesy of Owen D.). Vol. II, pg. 361: Second Lieutenant JS Carter arrived on 8th January 1918 to 2nd Bn. Gren. Gds. pg. 367: Listed as 2nd Lt. in No. 1 Company 2nd Bn. Gren. Gds. March 1918. pg. 371: 29th March 1918. Second Lieutenant Carter...who went down to the first line transport for a rest. Vol. III pg. 24: Listed as 2nd Lt No. 1 Company 2nd Bn. Gren. Gds. April 1918. pg. 79: Listed as 2nd Lt., Bombing officer, 2nd Bn. Gren. Gds. July 1918. pg. 115: Listed as Captain, No. 2 Company 1st Bn. Gren. Gds. Sept 1918. pg. 116: 27th Sept 1918; the order of march was No. 2 Company under Captain Carter.... Vol. III, pg. 117: On nearing Flesquieres, the enemy's machine-gun fire from the direction of Graincourt became very heavy, and Captain Carter was killed, being hit in the head. pg. 122; Listed as Killed, Captain JS Carter. pg. 235: Listed in Roll of Honor, Captains killed; 2 Bn., Carter, JS, 27/9/18. (Misprint; as should be 1st Bn., but as he started with 2nd Bn., obvious where mistake came in.) As Captain, No. 2 Company, Carter would have spent his last days preparing for the upcoming attack. According the Battalion?s war diary, the companies conducted training in open warfare under their own arrangements in the days immediately before the attack. On 25 September, the Division Commander addressed the officers and NCOs of the Battalion on the upcoming operation; the Battalion then conducted a rehearsal for the attack on Premy Chapel.

JS Carter remembered on Cromer War Memorial, Norfolk. [roll-of-honour.com] The London Gazette, 26 Jan 1917, Supplement of 27 Jan 1917: Norfolk Volunteer Regt, 4th Bn.; to be temp. Lts.: James Shuckburgh Carter (late Lt., 5th (Cinque Ports) Bn., Royal Suss. Regt.), 28th Jan. 1917. The London Gazette, 27 July 1917, Supplement of 30 July 1917: War Office, 30 July, 1917; SPECIAL RESERVE OF OFFICERS. The under-mentioned, from an Officer Cadet Unit, to be 2nd Lts. 27 June1917; FOOT GUARDS, G. Gds.?James Shuckburgh Carter. In the Great War (1914-18) the four battalions of the Regiment fought in all the principle battles of the Western Front. By the end the Regiment had suffered 11,915 casualties of which 203 Officers and 4,508 Other Ranks were dead, seven VCs had been won and 34 Battle Honors awarded. [From Ponsonby?s The Grenadier Guards in the Great War (internet sources)] While not specifically mentioned in the war diary of 1st Battalion, Captain Carter probably lost his life during an attack near Canal de Nord for which the Regiment received honors on 27 September 1918. [My interpretation from War Diary: FRANCE, BELGIUM AND GERMANY: Guards Division, 3 Guards Brigade: 1 Battalion Grenadier Guards: July 1918 - Feb 1919, National Archives.] This is the same battle in which the commander of 1st Battalion, Lt. Col. John Standish Surtees Prendergast Vereker, and 6th Viscount Gort received the Victoria Cross. He was awarded the Victoria Cross for his actions on 27 September 1918 at the Canal du Nord, near Flesquieres, France. Lieutenant-Colonel Gort led his battalion under very heavy fire and although wounded, when the battalion was held up he went across open ground to obtain assistance from a tank and personally led it to the best advantage. He was again wounded, but after lying on a stretcher for a while insisted on getting up and directing the further attack which resulted in the capture of over 200 prisoners, two batteries of field-guns and numerous machine-guns. He refused to leave the field until the success signal had gone up on the final objective. Gort's soldier servant, Guardsman Ransome, was killed while helping Gort to safety. [internet sources] The Battalion?s war diary simply states that Gort was wounded and that a Captain Simpson assumed command.

I thought it about time I shared some of my efforts with the GMIC. Almost two years ago, I obtained a Victory Medal named to "Capt J.S. Carter". Upon initial cursory research I was surprised to discover that Captain Carter of the Grenadier Guards was a KIA very late in the Great War and curiosity led to me to seek out more details about this offcer. I had collected many medals up to this point, but it was this particular medal that really gave me the incentive to jump into the world of researching both the man and the history behind the medal. Almost all of my research to this point has been on the internet (with the help of some great Pals on another Forum). I suppose some day I will have to start digging even deeper. Comments (including pointing out my errors or mistakes) greatly appreciated. ----------------------------------- MIC: James Shuckburgh Carter, Captain, Grenadier Guards; entered France probably in 1916 or later, also entitled to War Medal; KIA 27 September 1918. CWGC: In Memory of Captain JAMES SHUCKBURGH CARTER, 1st Bn., Grenadier Guards, who died age 37 on 27 September 1918; Son of John Proctor Carter and Isabel Mary Carter; husband of Diana Violet Gladys Carter of Houghton Green, Playden, Sussex. Remembered with honor SANDERS KEEP MILITARY CEMETERY, GRAINCOURT-LES-HAVRINCOURT] {"Sanders Keep" was a German fortification 2 kilometers South-West of the village, between the Hermies and Havrincourt roads. It was stormed by the Scots Guards on the 27th September, 1918, and after the fight the British and German dead were buried on the battlefield by the Guards Division Burial Officer.} ODGW: Regiment, Corps etc - Grenadier Guards; Battalion/etc- 1st Battalion; Surname ? Carter; Christian Name - James Shuckburgh; Initials - J S; Decoration ? None; Rank LT (A/CAPT); Died Date 27/09/1918; Died How - Killed in action.

Great book! As an artilleryman and former battery commander, I hope someone one day cares for my mementos as you are for this soldier.

This is great! My main area of interest is also Imperial Germany and like you I have started collecting photographs, postcards, death cards that show holders of the decorations. I've done quite of bit of research from my British medals since they are named and really found that part of the collecting experience interesting and fulfilling - to know something about the men and their war experiences make the medals more real. Collecting named photos or cards showing the decorations make an equalling interesting link for other countries' decorations. I've even been able to do this with one Italian soldier from WWI. Since this is my first post in the GMIC, I must say this is precisely why I think I will enjoy this forum - sharing original ideas. Thanks.