JapanX

So what do with think about my classification attempt Dieter? Especially about dating variation C. You are lucky to have D in your collection!

Excellent! Very interesting and important information!!! :beer: Thank you again Pieter! "Meiji periiod cummulatively; first cl 17, second cl 85, third cl 463, fourth cl 2250 and fifth cl 8400. For the Showa period he has only figures for the first and second class, 42 and 210" This is really something! I knew only about meiji numbers for 1 class (yours numbers completely coincide with mine information). 42 and 210 for Showa period Are you sure that this is only Showa numbers? Maybe its a total number of all 1st and 2nd classes during Meiji-Taisho-Showa? Because according to my information total number for 1 classes is 42 (not 41 as Peterson stated in his book). Regards, Nick

In last post I mean Showa of course not Taisho... Sorry

And what about this spacing?! Does it really looks normal for the japanese order box? I don`t know...

P.S. Igor probably will think: “My gosh, what is wrong with this guy? I only asked if this piece belong to 5th class or not.” Sorry mate. :D

Of course the ultimate authority in our discussion a) genuine document on every variation by every year inside time period under study or b) information from Osaka Mint (I am seriously playing with idea to write them a letter ) Cheers, Nick

And Variation C is rather numerous class (of course not as numerous as A and B)! I think it took at least a couple of years of manufacturing (or even much more time!) to make it that numerous. And that’s why I think that Variation B doesn’t belong to the late 90s or early 00s. Variation C simply doesn’t allow it.

Reverses

Obverses

When exactly Variation B has replaced Variation A? I don’t know that for sure (Osaka Mint people know this for sure). But Variation B was definitely created only in the second half of the last century. And there are too many pieces of Variation B in the market. “Too many” if this type was manufactured only during 90s (or even 80s). And then there is Variation C. I think that Variation C is immediate relative to Variation D. Some photos to support my point of view.

Variation D (“modern two screws”)

Variation C (“two screws”)

Variation B (“glue”)

Variation A (4 rivets)

Let me explain in every detail why I allow myself to attribute Igor 5th class to specific time period (to be exact circa 1975-1995). I think that after WW II there were four different variations (or types) of sacred treasure order. Here they are in chronological order on an example of 5th class.

I don`t think that this is mass production quality Paul. This is more like "Hecho a mano" production style. Of course this is only my subjective point of view. Nick

Very true!

Hi Pieter! If its not too much to ask - can you post number for 3,4,5,6 and 7 classes for Meiji and Taisho epochs. If you have them of course. Thanks Nick

Usually doesn't mean always . Here type 7.2 with a sandblasted reverse. But I never met type 7.1 with sandblasted reverse.

Yes. I think that two screws on reverse belong to 1995-2003 time period - direct predecessor of modern type (technologies are almost identical). No doubt about it (in my mind ). I will post good photos tommorow. Plain reverse direct predecessor of two screws. I can't define its time borders accurately. But this is not penultimate type. But it is exact not post-war speciments (again in my mind ). I called them glue-type (it really holds everything together ). Documented groups could easely be created (let me put it this way) artificially. :(

Hi Dieter! Certainly I meant that this box was at least partly home-made (do-it-your-self-style) (sorry for "self-made" its my russism ). Take a good look at the boderline of the top + I`ve never seen such clasp on order boxes. This type of clasp belong to the badges boxes. And then strange overall form of the box. This is mine reasons "It's pretty good if it was home-made!" - I completely agree. Cheers, Nick

Another angle.

Precious document!

Official photo.

Procedure.