Mervyn Mitton

I had a response from a top London auction house - they think that there may be some room for doubt - but aren't positive. As we all know, it can be difficult to decide from a photo. Here's a final picture with it set-up and working.

Odulf - two great pictures. I would have thought the drummer to be about 18 or 19. But the cadets firing the 12 lbs. could only have been about 13 or 14 ? So few schools today, still maintain their old cadet corps. Mervyn

Just a note to David Grumpy - reading this post I found that I had overlooked your thread of December 2009. You mention that you have some research on the Zulu War - particularly the ages of 'Boy Soldiers'. When you have time I would be very pleased to hear of this research - apart from posting here - it would make a good thread on my Zulu Iklwas - which if I remember , is now under Brit. Badges and Equipment. Mervyn

James - I was talking figuratively with the possible award. He told me that he was advised privately that he could be next on 'the list' ! I haven't seen him for a few years - he was an advisor to the British Govt. and came here on 'talks'. I really only remember what he told me - and wouldn't breach a confidence by saying more. However, I saw his special passport - which for title holders has an extra page and carries diplomatic priviledges.

Stephen - we shall look forward to seeing your posts when you are ready. Meanwhile, only the Chairman gets the occasional 'Sir' ! Brian and I have responsibility for the British forums - we didn't move quickly enough........

I am wondering if any of our members can assist Mike with his question on correct uniforms ? What about our Indian members - ?

Medieval - or, perhaps even Roman period. Could it be part of a breast plate - the upper suspender looks like a dog's head grasping the plate. You need to speak to a museum, it is very hard to tell just from a picture - probably will turn out to be part of a farm implement ! But, you can never be sure with these old excavated pieces. Did your friend go back and check the area out thoroughly ? Should metal detectors be allowed they could help - you may find it was a skirmish site ? p.s. from the patination, I would say bronze ? Please let us know if you do establish it's origins.

Since the British and Commonwealth Police Forum has been moved into the British section, I have the feeling that members think this is now a defunct site - FAR FROM IT ! Now is the time to post anything of interest for other Worldwide Forces - also, we would like your ideas for another sub- Forum to go alongside this one ? Brian and I have suggested to our Chairman that we have one on Military Police - however, he is not convinced it will have interest, and numbers. Please post anything of interest - and do give Brian and I, your suggestions for a new Forum ?

Stephen - firstly, let me welcome you as a new member of GMIC - with your varied interests you will find lots to keep you occupied. Please keep us up-to-date with any info on the new medal. I just noticed how many threads have been added - obviously of great interest to our members. You have probably noticed that we have an active Police Forum - a few down from this one. Brian has a splendid post going on the Special Constabulary - again, one that has a phenomenal viewership - I am sure you will be able to make good contributions. I have mentioned before, I think it is the Specials who really appreciate our Police Forces and contribute heavily. Sometimes really rare old items are added and are lucky to get just a few replies. I'm sure we will all look forward to hearing more from you. Mervyn

Peter - your comments could be considered in line with modern thinking. Wild animals have few to defend them and in Sth. Africa we suffer from the - 'if it moves shoot it' syndrome. Fortunately many are fiercely defensive of the animals and I fully support this thinking. I am a FZS of London and think cameras only should be used for 'shooting' wildlife. However, when I read the story of these young children, I thought it a genuine act of bravery - after all they were 8 and 11. Mind you, Canada has some quite vicious animals and if people walk amongst them they should take some precautions. Mervyn

Chris - quite incredible - you have a whole platoon standing in your collecting room. I bet a burglar would have a heart attack....

Thankyou, Megan for adding that picture of the regalia. Perhaps because the number of appointees was so small, these historic Orders are sometimes overlooked. We have an Earl that comes to the shop ( Carrick - the 14th. - the 3rd. was a King of Scotland) - he told me he is next on the list for the Thistle ! Mervyn

Mike - firstly, welcome to GMIC. The ingenuity of members to recreate the past always amazes me - that you should have chosen Skinner's Horse - famous as they are - is really quite staggering. Well done - we shall all be looking forward now to seeing your group - in uniform and on horseback. Although they are a famous unit, we did not find out anything too unusual on this post. I think Harry is probably your best bet - give it a few days to see who answers and then I will draw attention to your membership. Please ask any questions - it is quite frightening sometimes the resources that members have available. Mervyn

Thankyou, Windu. His earlier biography helps to keep the picture straight. He was an employee of the British East India Company. Since I feel like 'stirring things' I should point out to Willem that Gov. Janssens was not 'our' Governor - rather he was his ! We defeated the Dutch in 1805 in Capetown. Having foolishly returned it on Napoleon's promises of peace.

Hi - Windu - just noticed your post - a good one with interest. Without doing any research, I am wondering how you list Sir Stamford Raffles as a Dutch Governor. He was the Governor of Penang under the British East India Company - with bad malaria he moved the colony to the new site of Singapore. He was the founder of the World famous London Zoo - sending the foundation collection to London from Malaya and the East Indies.

The Order of St. Patrick ranks in the top three - after The Garter and the Thistle. Instituted on 5 February 1783 by King George III - he intended it to be a reward for the Irish Peers who had remained loyal during the American War of Independence. The lovely old painting above came to notice advertising an excellent new book on the Order. It shows George III surrounded by the Knights. Initially there was the King and 15 Knights - not uncommon, I think The Thistle only has twelve. However, in 1833 - during the Reign of King William 1V - they extended the list to include the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland (The King's representitive) plus 22 Knights and additionally, some Honorary Knights. Unlike the other two senior Orders, the sash for the Patrick is worn from the right shoulder. After the Partition of Ireland in 1922 there were no further appointments - although, unusually, all three of King George V's Sons were made members. Following the death of the Duke of Gloucester in 1974 the Order has become obsolete. The following picture of the Order from the Medal Year Book.

THE ILLUSTRIOUS ORDER OF ST. PATRICK

THIS SHOWS DETAILS OF THE MOUTHPIECE

THIS SHOWS THE END OF THE HEAT APPLICATOR - IT WAS HOLLOW, SO THEY MAY HAVE BLOWN THROUGH IT FOR MORE HEAT. THE HEAD MAY ALSO, HAVE HELD CHARCOAL?

THE HEAD OF THE SILVER HEAT APPLICATOR

THE HEAD OF THE BOWL

One of the ideas behind this new Forum is to discuss and ask questions about non-military items that we may have collected over the years. This is such a piece - and I have never previously seen one to even include the brocade carrying case. The Far East is the main grower of the Opium Poppy - particularly the Golden Triangle which exists where Thailand - China - and Burma, come together. It is an illegal crop and the Authorities do their best to burn and destroy. However, the people living in this area are fairly primitive tribes and just move the growing areas. The poppy flower looks like most others, but, the green pod at the base of the petal contains morphine in a raw form. The collectors use a metal fingernail to slice cuts into the pod and then collect the whitesap that oozes out. This is opium and it is usually rolled into a small ball - rather like press tack and is smoked in asmall pipe. When opium has been refined it becomes morphine - which despite it's medical uses is one of the most addictive and evil drugs. One of Britain's more disgraceful episodes was our forcing the Chinese - by several Wars - to allow the importation into China of Opium. This is how we gained Hong Kong - part of a settlement to stop the trade. Older Chinese men would go to special houses to smoke - this was necessary as they were very vulnerable and disabled whilst the drug lasted. The wealthier ones would have their own special sets. Unfortunately, the drug was not confined to China and was prevalent throughout the East. The set shown here is almost certainly Japanese and could be as much as 150 years old. The set came into the shop years ago and probably came to Sth. Africa in the early years of the 19th. Century. Passenger ships would come here in the European winters and take trips to India, the Far East and Australia. This was probably bought as a souvenir in an antique shop of the time. There are three pieces in the set - the bamboo, metal and gold decoration of the pipe ; the silver rod with a woven ball top. This was for heating over a burner and was then applied to the small ball of opium held on a spike in the bowl. Both were contained in a beautifully brocaded carrying case. Opium is still used by some of the older people in the Far East - you can spot them immediately - they have an emaciated appearance and the skin colour, somehow, looks different. Other, more easily obtainable drugs now seem to have taken over.

Josef - firstly, let me thankyou for showing such a lovely and collectable set of travelling cutlery. The condition of the silver is exceptional and the marks as clear as the day they were stamped. I hope that as time goes on that we will be able to maintain your interest. I actually think that this non-militaria Forum will attract a lot of attention in the future. When a Gentleman travelled in those days his valet (or , personal servant) was responsible for a travelling set of cutlery. Meals had often to be taken in small wayside inns - and you certainly didn't want to use theirs. There were some Countries that I used to visit where I always had my own travelling mug and cutlery. However, the wonderful provenance you have given to a very senior general officer, almost certainly means these are a canteen of military cutlery. The folding action was common for both sets, but the quality shows he was an important person. They are very sought after by collectors and you could be surprised at the value today. I hope we will see more posts from you ? Mervyn p.s. The morocco leather box is still fine inside - however, the outside could do with some help to stop any more peeling off. When they come into the shop in this condition , we usually match a good shoe polish and lightly apply. This covers the bare leather parts and brings it up well. Try on a little part underneath and see if you like the improvement ?

This third one is fairly close in age to the one above - it is the Sheffield Hallmark and is for 1901. The early part of King Edward 7th's reign. This style is usually referred to as a 'waisted' design as it swells in the middle. This one weighs 585 gms. of sterling silver. Probably all three were originally part of full teasets - although you could choose to buy them alone. Time is a great separator of sets and I am quite happy that these have such high quality to them.

The next oldest is this one - usually described as being in the Queen Anne style with it's vertical banding. This is exactly 100 years younger then the one above - 1898. Also London hallmarks it weighs 775 gms. or, 24.5 ozs.. This means a scrap silver value of over 350 pounds ($560) - but, how dreadful that something like this should be melted down.