Dieter3

Indeed!! I must be getting old...... :lol:

Not the best of condition, but a neat document. Thought I'd post for those that may not have seen one. Given how relatively common these medals are, I'm a bit surprised that the documents are as scarce as they are. Anybody have any ideas why? These have a nice watermarking.

Yes! Primarily the forms of attachment and the types of rosettes used - like this earlier piece in the lacquer box - these pieces had stick-pin rosettes for ladies, as did the special membership medals, not a simple pin back - a later adoption. Same with the safety pin design - the "safer" version used on earlier and very late pieces. In other words - you do not see this type of medal in a lacquer box as "Order of Merit" - they are always of a safety pin design. You do see them in post-war lacquer boxes that are marked distinctly with "Gold" or "Silver" Order of Merit, along with the stick-pin rosette being lost at some point, probably during the war. Note how I highlighted the word "observed"!! And of course I have not seen all there is to see, I can only make my claims based on what I have seen to date. But this what I mean by convention - structural features that can be associated with other features or time periods.

Yes, the box is the mystery!! But one thing, we can say it does not date as far back as 1930 - this latest post is one that is from that era - but the one from the mystery box is definitely a later piece than this, I don't think it can be form the 1930s. It just goes against the observed construction conventions. But you would be right to say there is no written proof of anything!! These are certainly not rare awards at all, (yes, the one box is odd, I'd call it scarce if not rare....) - BUT the documents certainly are. i wonder why? I would think the documents would show up more frequently given the number of medals found. It would be useful to find mated medals and documents to help with placing dates to medal types. I know this is not 100% guaranteed, but it would be a start. Alas, it is a rare thing to find this situation!! At some point, I will make measurements of the thickness of this medal compared to the others, again - not helpful yet - but it may be of value at some point - placing thicker, heavier medals within a timeframe, or possibly from a specific maker???

Interesting! I've seen other medallions on chains, but not mini-medals, they've always been ribboned. This one definitely couldn't accommodate a ribbon, so you guys could be right about the chain thing! It does seem like a high-quality piece, though I'm uncertain of it's construction, possibly silver, it seems fairly heavy.

Yep! One must be able to back up their claims and facts with reliable sources or solid evidence. Conjecture and whatnot is fine, so long as it noted as such.

Here's what I believe is a piece dating to late 20s, maybe early 30s - very common to see this "ス" hallmark associated with rosettes in this time period, not only red cross, but other orders as well. Though the medals themselves seem to lack any hallmarks. What exactly does that mean? No idea, but I'd guess it was a specific maker contracted out by perhaps the Japan Mint and the Red Cross to make them. Nick - as compared to the "mystery" medal, you can see the obvious difference being the safety pin attachment - that I contend was phased out during the war and thereafter - to be brought back at some point. One thing that really stood out was how substantial the medal itself is - it's thicker and heavier than most. Very noticeable. I have to do some measuring.

You might want to inquire over at the Gunboards forum, the Japanese section - they've got some serious weapons experts there.

Nice find!! Her work must truly be significant to have bestowed upon her this award.

I prefer the SAME! It's already confusing enough. Come on Japan Mint, give us a break! :lol:

The only reason I'd say it's not a true miniature (like with a ribbon and such) is that the ring is a pinch ring, and sized like the ones on the Russo-Japan war commemorative medallions. It's not the welded type, and I think too small to accommodate a ribbon. I wonder if it's more like a trinket for children or something like that? I have seen actual mini's of the special (like on your site), the golden special, and the order of merit - cool stuff!

Well, I don't think this can truly be called a medal - not sure what to really call it! Here's a mini version of the basic member's medal, sans the ribbon obviously! The obverse relief is obviously not as detailed due to the size. I have no idea what the origins or details of this little piece is, it came to me unexpectedly. It's pretty dinky!!

Sounds good to me. We need to be consistent if we are to understand anything! :)

I'd ask the seller how he/she knows, or why they believe that it is Japanese....

Me too! Am I lost?? But there are other mints, like the one in Tokyo, but I don't know who made what or when, other than Osaka.....help, my brain hurts...... :blush:

Yes, these do look much more similar with that photo - the other one casted shadows that made my eyes perceive the characters as looking "stylized" when they are in fact not! The differences seem minor, but they are still somewhat significant, at least I think so!! ;)

Now this is interesting, and something I didn't even think about. This explains a lot - if the Japan Mint, not Osaka was making items, and the Japan Mint has no hallmark - well, that explains all those un-hallmarked pieces! I was under the mis-impression that only the Osaka mint made medals after the scandal. Did the Japan mint use hallmarks???

Yes, and the kanji stampings look to be of wider lines on C, or maybe it is an optical illusion?? What exactly do you mean by "eyes"??

Yep, that'd be the most recent type. These cases with the bolder fonts seem to always have the pin, and the narrower fonts came with classic rosettes, or so have been my observations!! I'm looking for one like yours, but it must have the pin in the original plastic bag, and I'm hoping for the original, marked box too! Red Cross medals are my crack. :lol:

I find this hallmark, "ヒ" also interesting as this was used on some 1914-15 war medals as well, could this possibly date this Sacred Treasure to that period? I wonder..... Notice though that the kanji on the reverses of the two third classes have differences - the Osaka-made piece looks slightly more stylized, no?