RobW

Tim, I can only echo what Bill has already said. Many thanks for having the drive and enthusiasm for establishing the separate vic thread. I am hopeful that others will continue to contribute to this area. Regards in wherever you may end up. Cheers, Rob

Hello Jim, I would echo the same as Tim. It is not altogether unusual to see the unofficial French-Belgian vic on such groups. The official French victory medal was instituted on 24 January 1919 and in the Ministerial Instruction of 7 October 1922. Such official examples were therefore unlikely to be available on a large scale until almost the end of 1922. This was a long period of three years for veterans to wait. In contrast the Commemorative Medal of the Great War was created on 23 June 1920. There were three unofficial French victories produced between the 1919 and 1922 period; the French-Belgian example, the C.Charles variety, and the M. Pautot - L. Mattei variety. It should also be noted that the French recipients were provided with the award certificates and then had to obtain the medals themselves. In most cases the harder to obtain items are the certificates and not the medals. Of note, however, is the Combattant Cross. This was created in June 1930 which in some way dates the production of this bar. Both the War Commemorative and Combattant Cross were, by the look of the makers mark, produced by the Paris firm of Janvier-Berchot. It is likely that the wearer used whatever medals were available at the time. Regards, Rob

Hello Bison, Thanks for the clarifying detail. I would agree that the study and identification of the different marks on French medals is interesting in itself. So much variety on the rims of these items that are often overlooked. In my study of victory medals I have often found different marks which then contribute to correctly identifying the manufacturer. Alas there doesn't appear to be a single reference of these marks; though these forum threads are a good addition for others to contribute and share. I have another example of the Commemorative Medal of the Great War that is a cast copy. So far it has been tentatively attributed to the M. Delande firm. Time and further research will tell. Regards, Rob

Hello Tony, There has been a recent find in Belgium of some old unissued stock from Fonson & Co. These would be the medals that are seen on ebay with the grease papered wrapper of Fonson & Co. They are difficult to find and do not turn up too often. Regards, Rob

Hello David, The small gilt crown signifies the person was a volunteer. Regards, Rob

Hello Lambert, That is a nice vic with an unusually large red enamelled cross. I have seen other belgian vics with the frontline service bars as well as the official 10mm enamlled cross denoting a wound chevron or stripe but this is unofficial as these ribbon emblems were institued for the War Commemorative Medal and not the vic. The original decree instituting the belgian War Commemorative Medal, 1914-1918, included a number of ribbon emblems. One of these was a red enamel cross for each wound stripe. These enamel red cross' were 10mm wide so the one you have illustrated is definitely larger. In addition similar red enamelled crosses denoting wounds were also authorised for the Commemorative Medal of the War 1940-1945. I have seen such a Commemorative Medal of the War 1940-1945 with an enamelled cross the same size as the one you have illustrated so there may be a link there. Despite the official decree indicating the sizes I have seen many and varied different styles of red enamelled crosses so this would most likely account for your larger example illustrated. I am sure there would be more knowledgeable belgian collectors on the forum who could talk more on this subject. Regards, Rob

Hello Lambert, Does the vic you posted in # 5 & 6 have any edge markings? The larger ball suspender is characteristic of French manufacture. I would expect to see the word 'BRONZE' and/or a mintmark on the edge. Is this the case? Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, As has been indicated there are a number of different varieties of ribbons specific to each country. There are quite a few different varieties of the Czechoslovakian versions and yours looks okay. The French ribbon is okay although a little faded and worn. The ribbon on the British example looks more like being of French origin although it is difficult to be certain from the pic. Again there are a number of different varieties of the French ribbon. The British ribbon is actually 38mm wide while most French ribbon is 36mm wide. In addition the original British ribbon has a very thin white cotton edge and has a thinner central red stripe. An example of an early British ribbon is at the older pinned thread at post # 158 on 10 October 2009 for comparison. I hope this helps. Regards, Rob

Hey Tim, The pic & info of the type 1 trio with MID is at post # 158 on 10 October 2009 for comparison. Both of my examples have not been refurbished and are the type 1. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, This disc is actually the central circle representative of the Japanese flag. If you take a close inspection of all the flags on the reverse they will have very fine details and hatching that if viewed with a glass with be illustrative of the flag of the relevant country. The characters overlaid on the flags are merely the Japanese script for the specific country. The close up of the reverse on post #4 shows this level of background hatching and flag detail. This is a very good example of the level of detail in these medals. Most look at the reverse but don't actually see the level of detail that is there. This level of hatching and detail is not present in the French reproductions. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, My two Type 1 vics are to a LT in RFA and a MAJ in the RAMC (Medical Corps). Regards, Rob

To one and all, My current work committments prevent me from more active participation at this stage. Kudos to Tim B for convincing the Chairman to establish a home base for the vic series. I look forward to much more fruitful and semi-organised discussion of this fascinating medal series. When I am able to drop in and contribute I shall do so. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, From what I have been able to ascertain there is no real significance on the minor difference you noted. The major difference is the change in the length of the signature itself. Another good source for the accurate and correct ribbons for the specific vics is also the online auction sites in each country. Regards, Rob

Bill, There are two different varieties of the italian type 3. The differences are in the manufacturers signature on the lower right. These differences have been highlighted earlier in the thread. Regards, Rob

Bill, In answer to your questions: 1. Yes it is one of the correct ribbons. There are a couple of minor variations in the italian ribbons. 2. Whether or not you remove the thread is up to you but if you can remove it without damaging the medal or ribbon that would be preferable. Regards, Rob

Hello Jim, Welcome to the thread. This is a nice ready-made collection of vics. Finding these items with their correct ribbons is another area that itself requires much study. As Mr Laslo has mentioned in his reference obtaining the pieces is one thing; having the correct ribbon lends to the authenticity and correctness of the piece. It also helps you identify if a piece has the correct ribbon or has been re-ribboned with a latter produced ribbon or one of different manufacture. There are a few ribbon varieties that are characteristic of specific countries. In regards your small collection most have the correct ribbons, except in the case of: * Italy - This has the British ribbon attached. There are a number of correct Italian ribbon styles which have been identified and pictures posted earlier in this thread. * Romanian - It has the Belgian ribbon attached. The correct ribbon is either of a less watered local Romanian manufacture or of French manufacture. There are examples of each listed already on the thread. A close-up of the reverse of the Romanian vic would help in order to determine which variety it is. Hope this helps. Regards, Rob

Hello Amit, No that was a typo by me on my earlier post. I have corrected it as well. As far as I am aware the Andaman and Nicobar clasp is a navy only one. There are other details on this clasp and others, on earlier postings on this fourm as well at: Samanya Seva Medal Sainya Seva Medal Hope this helps, Regards, Rob

Hello William, I can't really add much more than what has already been posted here. I was conducting some other related research into the Sainya Seva Medal to the Indian Army and the areas that had been listed as 'special duty' for the purposes of pay, other conditions of service and the award of the clasps. I recall, at that time, coming across a reference to a similar list of Navy 'special duty' areas which included the Lakshwadeep and Minicoy islands amongst other islands. That document referenced service in at least the year 1998 and onwards time frame. That would at least indicate a time where this service may have attracted the form of service recognition of such a clasp. There are other reports from various internet archives which indicate that Indian Navy has had a presence in these island groups since that time in light of the need to increase the security of the Sea Lines Of Communication as well as to thwart piracy and other related events. Having said all that this clasp is not listed as part of the list of clasps that were awarded to the Indian Army so one could conclude it may be a Navy only clasp. I am aware that at least one other clasp of the Sainya Seva Medal was also awarded only to the Navy so the precedent is there. There does appear to be not a lot of information out there on this clasp. Hopefully the longer term collectors of Indian medals will be able to shed some more light on this subject. Regards, Rob

Hello Amit, While I have no great knowledge of Indian medals I am aware that the Sainya Seva medal with clasp Lakshwadeep and Minicoy, was awarded to Navy personnel, for service within the Lakshadweep island and Minicoy island areas. I do not believe that it was issued to Indian Army personnel though. That is the extent of my knowledge although I am sure that much more experienced gentlemen here would be able to provide extra detail. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, The originator of this document has simply turned the US chapter of Mr Laslo's book into electronic Microsoft Word document format. There is no new information contained in this document. It has a document creation date of 20 August 2006 so it is not something that has been produced recently. It is a handy reference for those that don't have a copy of Mr Laslo's book, copyright implications aside. Having said that there are many differing opinions regarding copyright and orphaned works. Mr Laslo has passed away, and there are no further copies of his second edition book available, except in the second hand market. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, Welcome aboard to the forum. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim and others, As a primary victory medal collector I would agree that having a separate WW1 Victory Medals sub-forum would be a good idea. There could then be individual country threads as well as a general thread. In this fashion all the information about each country and the myriad of sub topics could be contained to that country. This would not only make collection and information recall easier but it would also streamline the posting of new information so that the newer collectors could find what they are looking for without having to wade through pages of posts. However I don't think it will occur for the same reason that it didn't occur the last time this was suggested. There is simply not enough regular contributors to this specific thread. There appears to be a relatively low number of active and regular contributors (up to 10-15) with a corresponding large number of watchers. With over 21,000 views you would expect a more active contributor rate but this is not the case. It would take a little bit of reorganisation to move all the existing contributions into country specific threads as well. If the chairman can be convinced I'd be all for it but then I think in reality, and given many competing priorities, a pinned topic is probably all we are going to achieve. I am happy to be proven wrong. Just my 2 cents worth. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, Thanks for the info. I have an electronic copy of a couple of the Studley catalogues. They are a good place to find information. Thanks for the assistance. Rob

To all, Given that none of our fellow US collectors has a copy of the original ND GO 528 from 1920 could anyone suggest a link to the US Navy archives where I might be able to find such a copy? Regards, Rob

Hello JimZ, I couldn't agree more with this statement. So much variety to collect and study. Regards, Rob