RobW

Tony, The planchet of my British medal, both obverse and reverse, appears the same as the official strike which leads me to believe it was a British production. The only difference on the planchet is the lack of the small plinth beneath the barrel suspender; which, as you know is part of the planchet striking. In this case the planchet is completely circular with the ball suspender soldered on top in place of the barrel suspender. The entire production has the same shiny gilt finish as seen on the official strikes. The medal is named. The naming style and type is totally consistent with that seen on official strikes which leads me to conclude it was a later issue maybe as a replacement or a late claim. I don't think it was made for the collector market. The recipient is listed as: 24583 PTE J.P. CLARK. W.YORK. R. I have not conducted any research on PTE CLARK yet; nor do I yet have a copy of his MIC. That is a project for the future when I have the time. In regards the actual medal; due to a number of reasons I no longer post pictures of my collection on this forum; but I hope the explanation above is enough to satisfy your curiosity. Regards, Rob

Hello Percy, If you are new to this collecting area then I would suggest you obtain the second edition of Mr Alex Laslo's work on the vic series. It is available relatively cheaply on a myriad of online sites. That, combined with the pictures in this forum, should be of assistance. Regards, Rob

Hi Peter, The entire victory medal series has been faked for quite a few years now; more predominantly the harder to obtain pieces like the Siam vic. I suppose with a known international market for the vic series in general it will always be attractive to the fakers to make their wares and hope they snare the unsuspecting buyer. Luckily, in this instance, the style and type of naming lettering is too different to that seen on originals. I think one the more lasting benefits of places like this forum is to share the knowledge and good quality pictures as an aid to educate the new and inexperienced collectors. Regards, Rob

Hi Tony, The French firm of M. Delande produced all manner of medals from a variety of countries and it is quite standard for them to use the ball suspender. They have produced a version of a number of vics from other countries that awarded the medal, including the Siam, US, and Portugal vics that had a ball suspender. The 39-45 Star, illustrated above, is but one of many that were produced by M. Delande and these varieties are not seen that often. In regards the vic mini I have this one listed above at 15 mm as well as another at 12mm which are two of the standard sizes for French mini's. I also have a full-size British vic with a ball suspender but that specimen appears to be British made with the addition of a ball suspender. Regards, Rob

Hi Percy, Thanks for the extra photos. It clearly shows what I had assumed was a planchet error, to be a shadow from the camera. A nice example of the official strike. My apologies if my follow-up question gave you pause for thought. Regards, Rob

Hi David, To provide some specific guidance regarding the South African type 2. They are particularly difficult to find so if opportunity presents snag it because they just don't seem to be appearing on the market. There are comparison pics of relatively good quality at posts # 2 & #3 at the start of this sub-thread. If you also collect miniatures be aware that the bi-lingual vic is even rarer than the type 2 full-size. The vast majority of South African miniature groups have the standard British vic mini but there were also bi-lingual vic mini's produced but in very limited quantities. They are exceptionally rarely seen so again; should you see one snag it. I have a number of examples of the full-size type 2 in my collection, as well as a bi-lingual mini, but they are staying put for the foreseeable future. Good luck in your quest. Regards, Rob

Hello Normandie, Un-marked Chobillon varieties like this are rarely seen without the BRONZE or 'AC'. I have a couple in my collection which have a more copper finish than a darker bronze as well as one that is in a Kretley Maison box. A good pick-up of a more difficult to obtain sub-variety of the Chobillon design. Regards, Rob

Hello Percy, To echo Tim's response; definitely not an official piece. I would suggest you copy one of the close-up pics of the obverse/reverse of the official Siam vic from this sub-thread and use that as a guide when attempting to locate an official example. Short of requesting additional pics from the vendor, you would be well placed to observe and confirm before parting with your money. The Brazil, Cuba and Siam pieces are becoming harder to obtain in good condition and prices never seem to go down. Have fun searching. Regards, Rob

Hello David, Don't forget to try and obtain the variety that doesn't have a makers name. It is listed as the official type 4. It is harder to obtain than the other three but is out there in the marketplace. Regards, Rob

Hello David, You have asked a very good question but there is no easy answer. The examples types that you have listed as still looking for, are particularly difficult to obtain. As I am sure you will note on the various sub-thread posts, some examples are particularly difficult to find even amongst very experienced and long-time collectors. All you can do is to continue to check online medal auction houses, medal dealers, and various online auction places. I would also suggest you may want to place a section in the wanted area of the forum. It has worked in the past for other forum members. Good luck. Regards, Rob

Hello Percy, An official strike in good condition, notwithstanding the British ribbon. I would suggest obtaining a piece of the French manufactured ribbon to replace it as it would be more correct to type. Interestingly, on this official strike, the planchet on the obverse has been struck off-centre. You will notice on the bottom half of the medal a noticeable line, which is especially apparent just below the ribbon drape over the foot of victory herself. It would appear that the planchet may have slipped which resulted in an off-centre strike. While you see die-flaws and planchet errors regularly on the Romanian unofficial strikes it is not normally seen on the official strikes. Compare your example to the numerous pics in this sub-thread but note particularly the close-ups on post 55 and 73, and you will see the off-centre strike on your example. Regards, Rob

Hello Percy, Welcome aboard the forum. I am sure you will find a trove of information on vics here amongst the threads. Noting your comment about the Portugal unofficial type 1 vic; the question of whether or not it will suffice as a country example type, is entirely up to you. If you are just collecting the official strikes of each county your search will be short and, over time, relatively achievable. If however you are looking to obtain all the unofficial strikes in addition to the official strikes, in order to have a more complete collection that will take a considerably longer time and much more effort. It is up to you; after all, it is your collection. Everyone here collecting vics does so for their own reasons. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, A nice example indeed. A good pickup and addition to your collection. Regards, Rob

Hello Oliver, You have managed to obtain all three of the sub-varieties of the Loriolli-Castelli version of the Italian vic. Interestingly the bottom of the three examples is a bit more difficult to locate than the top two. Regards, Rob

Hello Alexander, Both the unofficial type 1 (first example) and unofficial type 2 (second example) that you have obtained are correct, and in good condition. Of note is that there should be manufacturers marks and the word BRONZE stamped on the rims of the medals. The unofficial type 2 does have a bit of verdigris on the obverse. This can generally be removed with a soft brush but there are many and varied opinions on whether or not you should clean medals. As far as the ribbons are concerned the ribbon on the unofficial type 1 is the correct French ribbon but the ribbon on the unofficial type 2 is actually Belgian ribbon (which is quite distinctive). I would remove that ribbon and find another piece of French ribbon so that it is correct to type. Regards, Rob

Hello Alex, The ribbon is correct to the era and it is the correct un-blended ribbon commonly seen on the Czech vics. A nice example. Regards, Rob

Hello Lambert and Paul, It took me over 20 years of collecting vics before I found and managed to obtain a Brazil type 1 with the rim markings. Aside from the Portugal official type 1 I consider the Brazil vic type 1 the rarest of the regular issues. Having said that some of the unofficial strikes are also particularly rare. With the passage of time the scarcity is only likely to increase although I remain hopeful, that with the reach of the internet, more examples will appear from Brazil. Regards, Rob

Hello Egorka, A nice pick up of a few Japanese pieces. I would echo what Brian has already said and attempt to obtain Japanese pieces with their original boxes. As vic collectors we are fortunate that Japanese medals come with such attractive boxes which also makes it easier to keep the items in good condition. You will find it a challenge to obtain Japanese groups as a complete set as they are often split up for short-term profits. The most difficult aspect is to obtain a Japanese medal, with the box and the corresponding award certificate. Good luck on the start of your journey. I am sure there will be many vic collectors on this forum that will be able to provide assistance and help should you so need it. Regards, Rob

Hello Oliver, There has already battle claps matrix's posted in this thread (# 14, # 19 and # 343) which show the most common clasp combinations. Barring any major revelation about incorrect attribution at the divisional level it is not likely that a new matrix is going to be produced. The clasp matrix from the Laslo volume (Ed 1) is still considered relevant. Any further detail required on specific individuals, or units not listed in these matrix's, would require further detailed research. There are a number of additional references relating to battle and service clasp entitlement with the most recent published being: 'WW1 Campaign and Service Credits', Planchet Press Publication, Pub 21B (June 1996). If you contact the OMSA it is possible that someone may still have a copy available for sale. Regards, Rob

Hello Jason, Late to the party but I would echo the words of Lambert. Noting that the piece has already sold I would have passed on the item for the following reasons: 1. The planchet has been heavily polished on both sides, with the scoring marks more noticeable on the obverse. This is a great way to destroy value in a medal especially a lovely bronze medal. 2. There is a significant die flaw on the bottom of the reverse. While it is usual to see die flaws on the numerous 'unofficial' strikes, it is not regularly seen on the 'official' strike. 3. The medal has been 'court-mounted' which is a predominantly British and Commonwealth manner of mounting medals and certainly not the style in which Romanian medals were mounted; either singly or when in groups. 4. The ribbon is not correct to type, looking like the British weave of ribbon. On that basis I would have passed on the item. There are just as many good condition official strikes in the market, that have not been polished and have kept their lovely dark patina. Just my 2 cents worth. Regards, Rob

Hello Alex, This is what is termed an 'official type 2' with the name of the designer on the obverse. While I can't see the entire ribbon it too looks original, un-blended to type. A nice example in good condition.

Hello Oliver, This example looks in similar condition to earlier examples posted in this thread (# 111 & # 237) albeit having a flat tab suspender. It is not unusual to see examples with a poorer strike and edge finish as these medals were produced by a variety of Belgian manufacturers. I would suggest that the die that was used for this example had a fair degree of wear and that underneath the edge, where the filing is present, there may be the remains of the designers name. I have seen other examples where the designers name is very clear and defined and others where it is poorly defined, weakly struck and quite difficult to see. This, combined with the original Belgian manufactured ribbon, suggests that this example was produced by an unidentified Belgian firm. Regards, Rob

Hello Chris, There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the ribbon as there were a great variety of French produced vic ribbons. I have seen other French vics with the specific ribbon you have shown on your example. Nothing untoward about the bar either. Another contender for the red ribbon is the Serbian Milosh Obilich medal. Regards, Rob

Hello Skyeman, The 'type id' for the Reimer produced Belgian vics depends on the which country you are referring to. In Mr Laslo's volume he lists the Riemer produced Belgian vic in both the Belgium and Czechoslovakia entries. In both cases they are referred to as the 'Unofficial Type 2'. As a result you could refer to them as: 1. Belgian unofficial type 2. 2. Czechoslovak unofficial type 2. Either way it is also of benefit to include the clarification 'Riemer' variety. Having said that there is also great sub-variety in the Riemer produced models, with small differences in the ball suspender, and finish of the planchet. I hope that this is of use. Regards, Rob

Hello Skyeman, The term 'reproduction' in this context does not mean fake. These French produced reproduction were produced in the 1920's and 1930's timeframe so they are definitely current to the era. Some are maker marked on the rim and others are not. Either way they are quite distinctive and well made and are definitely slightly different in design to the official strikes found in Czechoslovakia at the time. There are two French produced reproductions listed in the Laslo volume: 1. Repro Type 1 - details and finish as per your listed examplet. 2. Repro Type 3 - a cast version of the Repro type 1. As your Czech collector friends have mentioned these French produced reproductions are quite difficult to find in good condition. A good pickup. Regards, Rob