RobW

To all, Seeing as I mentioned certificates and for those yet to see them, here is the Italian Ministry of War (Army) victory medal award certificate. The certificate measures 25 cm x 35 cm. It is large enough that it had to be scanned in two parts and then re-joined. It may not be immediately noticeable but there is a circular embossed authority seal just above the left hand (as viewed) of victory. This is in addition to the stamped Military District seal on the bottom of the document. This and the Navy award certificates have such lovely detail. The Italian Ministry of the Navy vic award certificate will follow. Regards, Rob

To all, Here is the ribbon bar for the Great Britain group of 3 above (post # 12). The silver rosette on the 1914 Star denotes the award of the 'Aug-Nov' bar as is the miniature MID device on the vic ribbon. Regards, Rob

Hello Thomas, The medals in the vic series are just the beginning. Once you start down the path of collecting vics it becomes a little bit of a larger world. The official medals themselves then lead you to all the myriad of unofficial strikes, re-issues, contemporary to the time (1920s) and later repro's, and that is just the full size ones. On top of that you have the miniature vics which are fascinating in themselves and the award certificates of some of the countries are very imaginative and attractive pieces. As a collecting theme there always seems much to keep me busy with the vics. Once you start down the rabbit hole you don't know where it will lead you. Regards, Rob

Hello Thomas, Thanks for the kind words. I wouldn't characterise myself as a 'Grand-Master' but moreso just another collector. If you look at the other country specific threads you will also see some specific posts about their vics as well. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, Kev and all, Thanks for the 'heads up'. All ethical arguments about selling of such items and ebay rules aside it does indeed raise the topic of 'buyer beware' and if in doubt buy the book or obtain the knowledge. That, in itself, is a vexing issue for victory medal collectors because the last specific reference book by Mr Laslo is now 17 years old, and the knowledge is fragmented at best. Both editions of Mr Laslo's works are good reference material but in a number of areas time has moved on and more information has come to light since that time. I think one of the best ways to obtain the knowledge is to at least handle the pieces, both real and reproductions, and to have an eye for detail. That way at least you can determine what is a real one and what is a repro or a fake. High resolution digital photos and forums like this help for sure in getting the information out there. Half the challenge of having items for reference is to actually be able to pick the piece up, study it, and then document the changes between the real item and the repro. The promulgation of that knowledge on forums is a perennial problem as well because it involves the tricky question of 'Do we post the information and thereby educate the fakers, so that they can then improve their products, or do we keep the information to ourselves and hope that buyers are wary of possible fakes'? This is not something that I could offer any new insight into. I think that this cycle is bound to be repeated wherever there is something that is deemed collectible and therefore of value. Regards, Rob

And the close-ups. Regards, Rob

And the reverses. Close-ups of the MM reverse to follow.

Hello Chris, Here is a small group of French mini's with: * Medaille Militaire, made of silver * War Cross with star * Victory medal (11 mm) * War Commemorative Medal 1914-18 * Unofficial wound medal What I found interesting is the different size medals on the one bar as well as the hallmarks on the MM. In this case the French vic is 11 mm in diameter. Of note is that on the reverse of the MM there are the two Paris Mint cornucopia marks astride a numeral '1'. This number 1 was the period silver assay mark for a .900 silver minimum indicating the MM was made of high quality silver. Regards, Rob

Hello Peter, The responses I've received from fellow collectors in Canada, the United Kingdom and Italy, all point to the same conclusion that it was an unofficial use. It was also indicated that the use of such ribbon on an Italian interallied victory medal could have been due to a lack of the correct ribbon at the time but I think this is unlikely. To commemorate the institution of the 'Italian Empire', the Impero medal was created. The ribbon that you have displayed on the vic on the left was used on that medal. There is one design known that has at least 4 different reverses. Faded ribbons generally do not show the depth of the colours, with the green the first colour to fade as shown in the pic below. As mentioned before I have also heard that the Italian victory medal was 're- used' with this style ribbon to commemorate the concept of the 'Italian Empire' during the rule of Mussolini from 1922 onward, and this would be consistent with the period. Details and images of the 'Impero' medal and ribbon (look under the heading of 'Italian Empire') can be found at: http://www.saintjohn...Page6/index.htm There were quite a number of unofficial Italian medals that were issued by the Blackshirts, including a number of Regimental medals and they also used this ribbon style among others. While a lot were worn most were not made official. The Blackshirts were Fascist paramilitary groups in Italy during the period immediately following World War I and until the end of World War II. Blackshirts were also known as the National Security Volunteer Militia (Milizia Volontaria per la Sicurezza Nazionale, or MVSN). One of the main references on Italian medals by Alessandro Brambilla mentions the use of such ribbon in footnotes in that book. (Alessandro Brambilla, Le Medaglie Italiane Negli Ultimi 200 Anni, vol. 2, Milan, 1997) Either way it is an unusual re-use of an existing medal with a commonly enough seen Fascist period ribbon. It would be an interesting side-point in a victory medal collection, and I have one in my collection. I hope this has helped. Regards, Rob

Hello Mervyn and others, To aid in seeing the difference here is a pic of both Australian Army Major and WO2 rank slides for comparison (Major on the left, WO2 on the right). As can be seen while both ranks wear a crown it is a different crown. Of course some comment could be made on the relative size of the crowns but ... I hope this is of use. Regards, Rob

Hello Mervyn, You are correct in indicating that one could confuse a WO2 rank slide with that of a Major. The main difference is that the WO2 rank is surrounded by the square border and the Major is not. That prevents the confusion although they are still hard to read from a distance. When I have time I will find some others to post a comparison pic. Regards, Rob

Australian Army WO2, embroidered, service dress, current issue. Mess dress is the same just on a white background. The backing patch is designed to be large enough to cover the previous rank, after its removal. Regards, Rob

Australian Army WO2, embroidered, DPCU, worn on top part of the sleeve before rank was moved to the front of the chest, c.1990's-2000's

Australian Army WO2, embroidered, polyester general dress & jungle greens, c.1995, 4.5cm x 4.5cm

Australian Army WO2, embroidered, jungle greens, c.1955, 6cm x 6cm

Australian Army WO2, worsted wool, c.1960. Worn on service dress on the lower sleeve.

Australian Army WO2, worsted wool, c.1960. Worn on battledress on the lower sleeve. Minor variations on crown compared to the one above.

Australian Army WO2, worsted wool, c.1950's. Worn on battledress on the lower sleeve.

To all, To continue with some Australian flavour here are some more. Staff Sergeant Major, Class 3, embroidered, c.1950. Regards, Rob

To all, To add some purely Australian flavour, here is a signaller skills badge, service dress on khaki, c1940. Regards, Rob

Hello William & SasaYu, Details and pics posted at the 'Serbia - Different Types of Commemorative WW1' thread. Regards, Rob

Here is the award document. It was awarded to a French soldier as late as November 1930. While they may be difficult to ascertain on this scan there are two embossed seals on the document; one near the centre adjacent to the serial number and a further one at the bottom of the document underneath the right hand signature. Again such lovely detail on the certificate. It is also a longer document which meant it was scanned in two parts and rejoined. Hope these are of use to others. Regards, Rob

Here is the inside of the box. Apologies for the blurriness of the inside box top.

Here is the outside top and bottom of the box.

Here is the Huguenin Frères produced medal. It is suspended by what appears to be a thick wire or tab suspender. Of note is that the 1917 on the reverse is missing the usually seen crossed 7.