RobW

To all, To change the direction a little here is a nice small British vic mini group. L-R; 1914 Star with bar, British War Medal in silver (marked STERLING on the reverse suspension arm), vic with Mentioned-In-Despatches emblem, French War Cross 1914-1918 with palm, and Long Service & Good Conduct Medal. What caught my eye was the original silk ribbons, the inclusion of the French War Cross, and the fact that the recipient had engraved his regimental details on the reverse of the suspender bar behind the pin. It is normally difficult to research mini groups as they are not named but in this case the group is attributed. Non British awards, like the French War Cross, are normally seen at the end of British Groups after all British awards but in this case it appears the recipient placed it where he wanted it ! Regards, Rob

Tim, Thanks for the kind words. Being a single issue collector it just means I have more time to do research into details of the vic series. Then of course there is the award certificates for the vic series which are just as fascinating as the medals themselves. Some of the certificates are attractive pieces on their own. While both editions of Mr Laslo's vic books are an excellent reference source, time has moved on and more interesting varieties are continually rising to the surface as well as new information which either adds to, or clarifies these earlier works. I have an original 2nd edition which sits in the bookshelf and another much used 2nd edition copy that has been emended with additions, deletions, and is full of pasted pieces, new images and many black pen markings. That is I suppose the nature of our hobby. You also meet some real gentlemen and more than a few rogues along the way !! I will continue to scan and post items from my vic collection when, and as, time permits. In a way it is a good project because it also means I am cataloging my collection as I go. Agreed that a single point of reference for all vic collectors would be a good thing. Let's see what the administrators think of such an idea ! Regards, Rob

To the fellow vic collectors, I am happy to continue posting items and info here but the last couple of posts and pics should probably have gone into the specific italian vic medal forum thread. I have some nice pics of two Greek vic unofficial type 2 (dark bronze and gilt) which would normally go into the Greek vic thread and am faced with a conundrum. Should we continue to post all country vic items here or in the relevant country threads ? I have posted a request for a separate Interallied Victory medal topic with specific country sub-threads. I think that this would be the best way to continue to post info and pics in the relevant country under the banner of a specific forum topic. What level of support would there be from similar like minded vic collectors for such a topic-thread ? Regards, Rob

To all, The re-issue type 2 has been seen in a number of different base metals. I have a shiny bronze (this example) as well a darker brown dull bronze specimen, and it has also been seen in a lighter toned flat bronze as well as in a silver finish. Note the die differences between this type and the official issues. Diameter is 36.4 mm. Hope the pics help. Regards, Rob

Tim and others, The italian vic re-issue type 1 is almost identical to the standard issues. It does, however have a shallower level of detail, is produced in a much lighter bronze material. The planchet is narrower than the official issue while the staffa suspender is much wider than the official issue. Diameter is 36 mm. Regards, Rob

Tim, The unofficial type 1 has been produced in a number of different metals, with a thin or thick staffa suspender. In addition there are very minor reverse differences as well and it is this variety that has some minor reverse differences that seems to be the model for the reproduction type 3. The repro type 3 I have is the same as the one you posted here. I don't have any philosophical disagreements with reproductions per se, as long as they are advertised and sold as so. If the item was displayed as an unofficial type 1 and sold as such then there is an issue. I would agree that the only way to tell the difference between an unofficial type 1 and its variants, the reissue types and the reproduction type is to handle them. The unofficial strikes are of a much darker base bronze metal whereas the reproductions are on a much more shiny and lighter bronze metal. The unofficial strikes tend to be thicker with the reproduction type 3 being noticeably thinner. When I have time I will measure the depth of my examples for comparison. The re-issue type 2 is immediately noticeable as being different. I would agree that all the marks that you have identified on the medal in question would indicate it, and mark it, as a reproduction type 3 (according to Mr Laslo's book). It is still collectible but it would not be an unofficial type 1. Dependent on work schedules I shall locate some specimens of the re-issue type 1 and re-issue type 2 for your reference as well as another unofficial type 1 with a different staffa. When I have I will post pics. I hope this helps. Regards, Rob

Tim, Looking at that Lorioli-Castelli variety it looks good to me. At 36 mm it is also the right diameter. Looks like a case of correct medal but with a more modern ribbon, probably replacing a worn out original. I am aware of a couple of cast copies that were produced in the UK in the early 1960's (italian vic repro type 1 and 2) but these are immediately noticeable due to the dark iridescent base metal and finish, reduced level of detail and a casting line in the centre of the rim around the medal. Regards, Rob

Mervyn, Being new to the forum I'm not sure of how long a thread remains active for before it is 'archived' so my comments may be off the mark. I am not sure of how many fellow Australians are posting here but to my mind if there was a generic title (AUSTRALIAN MILITARY RESEARCH as has been suggested) that stayed active, there would at least be one location that subsequent forum posters could go to when conducting any Australian military research. If the subject remains open I would be more inclined to drop in and have a look when I have the time, or answer queries if I can. Just my 2 cents worth ! Regards, Rob

Here are the obligatory close-ups. Regards, Rob

To all, Here is an italian unofficial vic type 1, 34 mm in diameter. It is considered rare even amongst italian collectors. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, It is not a re-issue type 2. I have a couple of the re-issue type 2 and will post pics of them when I have time. The item you have displayed is actually the reproduction type 3, according to Mr Laslo's reference. It is a contemporary copy of the unofficial type 1 and has been seen in a number of different metal finishes. The differences are described in Mr Laslo's reference book. The unofficial type 1 has also been seen in a number of different finishes. They have also been seen manufactured from slightly different base metals, as well as having different staffa suspenders. More pics to follow on the re-issue types and repro type 3 when I have time. Regards, Rob

And here are the close-ups. Hope the pics help. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim, Here are the pics of the two signature varieties of the Lorioli-Castelli type italian vic. I am not sure of the reasons behind the truncation of the makers mark and am inquiring with some fellow italian collectors. More details will hopefully follow. On a rarity scale the smaller signature type is seen much more rarely (approx 1 in 20) out of the Lorioli-Castelli variety. The smaller signature variety has accordingly been dubbed 'Italian official type 3a' as a continuance of the Laslo type classifications. Close-up pics to follow. Regards, Rob

Tim, There are two different varieties of the Lorioli-Castelli Milano signed version. I will post pics tonight. Regards, Rob

Great pictures Tim, I also have a U.S. vic with a re-issue CHAMPAGNE-MARNE bar attached. It is more of a shiny bronze finish and looks out of place with the other darker bronze coloured bars. Once I track it down I shall post pics. Regards, Rob

Here is another Czech official vic, with 'O. Spaniel' makers mark on the obverse, but this time with a barrel suspender. These types are much more common than the previous cylinder suspender types. Note the coarse weave Czech style ribbon and the unofficial single linden leaf device. Regards, Rob

To all, I have posted the following two items on the specific Czech vic forum thread but felt it was also of use in this thread. Here is a Czech official vic, with 'O. Spaniel' makers mark on the obverse, with a cylinder suspender. These types were replaced with the more commonly seen official vic with a barrel suspender. Note the coarse weave Czech style ribbon. Regards, Rob

Hello Tim and Kevin, I have a few official italian vic strikes with different ribbons. Some of these ribbons have been confirmed as those on the original issue by fellow italian medal collectors on a number of italian forums. In addition I have some of the italian re-issue and reproduction strikes that show some of the more recent contemporary ribbon types used. I will track all the items down and post a side-by-side comparison pic soon. Regards, Rob

Hello Mervyn, Further to post #48 here is an illustration from that reference. It shows a member of the Victorian Military Forces circa 1890 wearing the helmet plate that you have illustrated. Given that it is a black and white pic it is, of course, undetermined what colour the helmet is. It is further mentioned in that reference (page 187) that the specific helmet plate was worn on both blue and green cloth helmets. I hope this helps. Regards, Rob

To all, Here is one of my latest acquisitions. It is identified by Mr Laslo's victory medal reference book as the French unofficial type 2a 'uniface' variety. This item is not often seen. The item is 36.5 mm in diameter. There are no edge markings or BRONZE on the rim. Regards, Rob

To all, Here is one of my latest acquisitions. Identified by Mr Laslo's reference as the French unofficial type 2a 'uniface' variety. This item is not often seen and is considered rare even in France. The item is 36.5 mm in diameter. There are no edge markings or BRONZE on the rim. Regards, Rob

Here are the close-ups. The lack of a hallmark inside the wreath of the outstretched hand of victory on the obverse and the 'LA' hallmark on the reverse should be more noticeable. Regards, Rob

To all, Here is yet another Czech produced Belgian vic. It is identified as the 'unofficial type 1a' according to Mr Alexander Laslo's reference book. Produced by the firm of Alexander Leisek it is only slightly different than the previously posted unofficial type 1. It is characterised by: Obverse a thick wire or small ball suspenderthe lack of the designers name 'Paul Dubois'there is no hallmark inside the wreath held by victory. This is the only major difference between the unofficial type 1 and unofficial type 1amore defined rays underneath the feet of victory that are more widely spaced than the unofficial type 2 seriesReverse minor variations in the positioning of the surrounding wreaths as well as the finer detail of the country shieldsthe addition of a small 'LA' hallmark (denoting Alexander Leisek) at the 6 o'clock position below the centre wreath Compared to the official strike this model is generally seen in a width of just over 36mm in diameter. It is suspended by any number of differing varieties of the coarse weave Czech style ribbon and it has also been seen in both light and darker bronze base metals. Close-ups to follow. Regards, Rob

And the reverse. Regards, Rob

Hello Jean Paul, Here is my only other Belgian group. A nice group of 4 with War Cross and palm, Yser Medal, Vic, and War Medal (with 4 service bars; 1 gilt (denoting 5 silver bars) and 3 silver bars equaling 4 years service. Regards, Rob