RobW

Hello Thomas, If you have the time I would drop over to 'Ancestry.co.uk' and attempt to find the person's MIC. That may be able to give you more information. Failing that there are a number of South African members on this forum as well. Regards, Rob

Hello all, Given the lack of any response to this query I can assume that no-one has seen such an example? Regards, Rob

Hello Thomas, A bit of a follow-up on the C.C.L.R medal pair you illustrated. While the Corps as a whole was named so, there are also other references which indicate a Cape Coloured Labour Regiment so that would lock in your pair. It was recruited in July 1915, as the Cape Coloured Labour Regiment, for service in France. Other information suggests that the CCLR was the only South African raised unit of the Great War to receive the standard British victory medal, not the bi-lingual South African victory medal which was normally the case. I have yet been able to determine if this was restricted to just the 'coloured' soldiers or also to those white South African officers who commanded this force. Could you check the reverse of your medal to see if it is bi-lingual or not. Regards, Rob

On the reverse of the medal are the marks of: L.Süe (Sculptor) A.A.Rivaud (Designer) Salonique 1917 Regards, Rob

Hello Kevin, Here is my example. War Cross, 2nd class, with second award silvered star. Regards, Rob

Hello Thomas, You will find great variety even among the vic mini's. For your awareness both the Belgian and French vic mini's were produced in a number of sizes including: * Belgian - 12, 13.5 and 17 mm. * French - 11, 13, and 17 mm. In addition to the size variations they were produced in a number of different finishes, with some of the French mini's also having various makers and mint marks on the reverse. Regards, Rob

Hello Thomas, Welcome back to the thread. Johnnymac has already clarified the first abbreviation of C.Q.M.S. While not having much specific knowledge on South African units the C.C.L.R stands for Cape Coloured Labour Corps. This corps served largely in France but also in German South West Africa and East Africa. Regards, Rob

To all, This has already been posted on the specific thread in the Romanian section which discussed specifics of the 9 piece group. It is also relevant to the context of this vic thread as well. Here is a close-up of the official Romanian vic from that group with the KRISTESKU mark noticeable on the reverse. This to me is interesting because a large number of Romanian groups that I have seen pics of have had one of the myriad of unofficial vics mounted. I like this specimen because it has very few scratches or marks and appears to be in very good shape considering the bar was probably made around the 1930-1940s. Regards, Rob

To all, Here is another award document which arrived recently. It is similar to that document posted previously (post #20) but in this case it was awarded to a French marine. While on the previous document there was an embossed seal at the bottom of the document underneath the right hand signature, in this case it is a printed seal of the same design. There is also a further French rubber stamped seal on the base as well. This item completes the serb documents from my collection. Hope they are of use to others. Regards, Rob

Hello Kevin, Thanks for the re-direct. A most illuminating thread. At this stage I'll be leaving the group as is; a bit of intrigue with a group is a good thing sometimes. Regards, Rob

The Medal for Manhood and Loyalty is the variety that has the designers name (F. PAWLIK F.E.C) on the obverse and makers name (RESCH) on the reverse. With the limited information I have on Romanian medals and decorations that is, apparently a harder to find variation and it is usually seen in gilt. I have seen other varieties that have minor obverse differences and smaller lettering on the reverse but none with the designers and makers names present. Happy for any information on the background of this medal. Regards, Rob

As for the vic; yes it is the official strike with the KRISTESKU mark on the reverse. This to me is interesting because a large number of Romanian groups that I have seen pics of have one of the myriad of unofficial vics mounted. I like this specimen because it has very few scratches or marks and appears to be in very good shape considering the bar was probably made around the 1930-1940s. Regards, Rob

Hello Kevin, I had noticed the extension to the back of the bar. My initial thoughts on this bar were that the Order of the Star was awarded at a later date to the other awards and hence the extension. Could this explain the possibly two original awards of different grades of the Order of the Crown? I shall post pics of the vic and Manhood and Loyalty medal to follow. Regards, Rob

Hello Kevin, I have had a quick look underneath the rosettes and can't seem to see any differences in the ribbon, but then again that is just probably a result of age and my poor eyesight. I am also a bit loathe to pull or tug on the rosettes too strongly for fear of ripping them off. Given the number of possible 'inconsistencies' with this bar I am considering sending it back to the vendor. I am, at this stage, not totally convinced that all the items on the bar are correct and 'above board'. I am not sure how often these types or bars appear on the market so it will need some pondering! Thanks to all for the very handy and helpful clarifications. Regards, Rob

Carol, What would you suggest I do with the rosettes? Leave them on or remove them?? Regards, Rob

Hello Carol, Here is the close-up of the two rosettes. Regards, Rob

And the reverses. Regards, Rob

Hello Kevin, Here are the close-ups. Pics of the reverse to follow. Regards, Rob

Hello Carol, I shall also post a close-up of the area of the two rosettes for you to compare. To me both rosettes appear to have equal and similar wear and rubbing on the high points. I also noted that there is a repair job evident near the base of the Crown on the Order of the Star. Would this be relevant? Regards, Rob

Hello Kevin, As far as I can recall the first of the two Orders of the Crown has traces of gilt on it with the second appearing to be tarnished silver. I shall post close-ups of the obverse/reverse of these two this evening when I have time. Regards, Rob

Hello Carol, Thanks for the clarification and information. I had been told by the vendor that the group was dated circa 1940 so I was reasonably sure that with awards spanning from the Jubilee of Carol I period (1906), through the Second Balkan War 1913, Great War victory medal, and then the 25 Years' Military Service medal, that the time frame seemed correct for the early to mid 1930s to 1940. I wasn't particularly looking for such a group but as luck would have it, when you aren't looking for items, they sometimes find you. Is it normal practice to bend the bars over the ribbon on the Commemorative Cross of the 1916-1918 War, so that the ends cannot be seen or is this a medal mounting issue?? Regards, Rob

And the reverse. Regards, Rob

To all, Here is a nice Romanian group of 9 that I recently picked up. While the group has a certain level of wear, loss of enamel, and gilding loss on some of the medals I like it because it shows that the item was worn and displayed by its recipient. * Order of the Star, Officer. * Order of the Crown, Knight, gilt (possibly Lemaitre). * Order of the Crown, Knight, silver. * 25 Years' Military Service medal. * Commemorative Medal for the Second Balkan War 1913. * Commemorative Cross of the 1916-1918 War, ARDEAL, CARPATI, MARASESTI, BUCURESTI clasps. * Medal for Manhood and Loyalty, variation with designer's name (F. PAWLIK F.E.C.) on obverse and maker's name (RESCH) on reverse. * Official victory medal, with KRISTESKU designers name on the reverse. * Medal for the Jubilee of Carol I, military version. Of note is that it appears, to my untrained eye, that there are two different style of swords in between the arms of the Cross on the two Orders of the Crown. Would this indicate different manufacturers or just later design changes? Not having any specific knowledge on Romanian medals could anybody assist in identifying the time period the two Orders were produced, and who was the likely manufacturer?? I would appreciate any and all opinions. Regards, Rob

And the reverse. Regards, Rob

To all, Here is a nice Romanian group of 9 that I recently picked up. While the group has a certain level of wear, loss of enamel, and gilding loss on some of the medals I like it because it shows that the item was worn and displayed by its recipient. * Order of the Star, Officer. * Order of the Crown, Knight, gilt (possibly Lemaitre). * Order of the Crown, Knight, silver. * 25 Years' Military Service medal. * Commemorative Medal for the Second Balkan War 1913. * Commemorative Cross of the 1916-1918 War, ARDEAL, CARPATI, MARASESTI, BUCURESTI clasps. * Medal for Manhood and Loyalty, variation with designer's name (F. PAWLIK F.E.C.) on obverse and maker's name (RESCH) on reverse. * Official victory medal, with KRISTESKU designers name on the reverse. * Medal for the Jubilee of Carol I, military version. Of note is that it appears, to my untrained eye, that there are two different style of swords in between the arms of the Cross on the two Orders of the Crown. Would this indicate different manufacturers or just later design changes? Not having any specific knowledge on Romanian medals could anybody assist in identifying the time period the two Orders were produced, and who was the likely manufacturer?? I would appreciate any and all opinions. Regards, Rob