John R

Reverse

--------------

Can't help myself. Here you go:

Ed, do you happen to have images of the SB HSF? John

I also think that the reverse is cost prohibitive for the fakers to try to duplicate. They are not really concerned about us, or that 1% of the collectors that really study these badges. They can make their money with the other 99%. So I do not see them getting the reverses exactly right, however, I agree that the basic badge, minus hardware, will be more and more identical to the original badge they are using as the example. On the badge in question here, I just do not see, besides the finish issue, where this one is off. Perhaps in hand we would see that the sandy looking finish is OK, or not, I just do not know. The big problem is the source which makes all of us think about this a quite a bit more. If this was on more respected dealers' sites or tables, I do not think it would be questioned. John

Yes, I forgot about that detail. Gordon pointed out the burr issue before I believe and that it is commonly thought of as a casting line. However, casting lines can look like a burr, correct? I still have to go on the side of original based on the overall badge. It does bother me that it has sat on his site for so long, but, if this is the problem, others see something in this badge that escapes us--except for the possibility of the bubbling. John

Hi Ed. I did mention in the above quote that I had a concern about the bubbling. It seemed liked it was faked, but I am not sure. I am also concerned about what looks like a casting line. However, if this is a fake, then owners of this badge need to take a close look at what they have. John

55.5 mm X 45mm. John

The oval line could be the attempt to vault the badge by the owner perhaps. John

4

3

2

more images

This badge has just popped up on WAF and I thought I would post it here also. For now, 50-50 split of opinions--sort of falling in the catagory of how do you prove it is not a good badge since we have never seen this one before. For me, I do not like it, but that certainly does not make it bad. I do not like the ring on the back, the AS in a triangle type of hardware, and some other features. In other words, maybe an AS cast? I do not know, but want to get it over here for a look. The fitting of the ball hinge and the catch sure look good though. John

I want to be clear, most pilots flying with the Kriegsmarine were Luftwaffe pilots, not Kriegsmarine but there were many naval aviators for a short period of time. John

It was very short lived as this German outline reveals: Luftwaffenkommando See Aufgestellt am 4. Februar 1938 aus dem Luftkreis-Kommando 6 in Kiel und dem Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe unterstellt. Am 1. Februar 1939 aufgel?st. Befehlshaber 04.02.1938 - 01.02.1939 General der Flieger Zander Chef des Stabes 04.02.1938 - 01.02.1939 Oberst Bruch Einheiten 04.02-1938 - 01.02.1939 Luftzeuggruppe See 04.02-1938 - 01.02.1939 F?hrer der Seeluftstreitkr?fte 04.02-1938 - 01.02.1939 Flakkommandeur Kiel 04.02-1938 - 01.02.1939 Kommando der Fliegerschulen und Ersatzabteilungen See 04.02-1938 - 01.02.1939 Kommando der Luftdienstverb?nde

obverse

While I just lost the bid on ebay for the photo, I am glad I have a copy to go with the cap tally that I do own. Very rare tally and equally rare photo. Worn prior to the complete absorption of the Naval Air arm of the Kriegsmarine into the Luftwaffe. The book "Operation Drumbeat" relating to U-123 talks in great detail about the days of the independent naval air arm. Many of those pilots went into U-boat service when the change was ordered. John

My point in this post it to demonstrate that even for a website that is almost 100% fake in the KM badges, that is the website of http://www.staegemeir.de/ even good badges might pop up. I would not personally buy anything from that site but wonder how he makes a living since even the fakes have been there for at least a year--- I keep track of them and how the new breed of fakes are looking. This badge has been sitting, along with most of other fake KM badges for at least a year. Every other badge is a fake but this one appears to be good although I have done everything to find out if he has somehow made an almost perfect reproduction of the clasp. I have not looked at his site for over a year, I think I was blocked, but am once again able to access the site and make copies of the images. The price is not bad for a badge in this condition. (1800 euros--not cheap, but not outrageous either) I wonder why is it still there? Do collectors worry that if you order that badge, you would not get it but a subsitute? I really do not know and after a year, I really thought it would be gone by now. I am not plugging this site since it is one (like all dealer sites in my opinion) that must be approached with caution, but the fact remains, that even in the worst of sites, you can find period items. Whether you choose to deal with the devil so to speak and buy the item is up to the buyer and I have no opinion on that one way or the other. As far as I am concerned, the badges that are fake look fake, all but this one which looks period and it is the best KM badge on is site. Naaturally I wish no dealer sold any fakes, but that is just not reality and the only way to remain a collector is to learn the hobby almost as a professional collector. It is not for the impatient or imprudent and especially the greedy. Bottom line, I have not seen many silver frontspanges in about a year anywhere, although a year ago, they seemed to pop up on Detlev's site every week. Well, all of this can be very cyclical as most of us know. The one week you do not look, there it is and you missed it. Is it possible though that the silver finish just has bits of sand in it to make it appear like bubbling? Well, this is what you get when you sell high end fakes on the internet and when that odd good one comes up, nobody will take a chance on ordering it. I do not have a moral to this story, I just want to point out that good badges can be found in the most unlikely of places. If this message is out bounds, the moderator should delete it, but I did want to post what I think is a good badge for others to see and where I saw it. Other opinions would be helpful, but I too can't find anything wrong with it. John

Martin is correct. A Mayer. John

7

6

5

4

3