Odin Mk 3

I look forward to the new website and am happy to help if I can. I have made some progress with recording Metropolitan Police Jubilee and Coronation Medals and the basic details of service of their recipients (in book form - The Metropolitan Police, The Men And Their Medals). I also have much of this information already on line in a database. Good luck with your project.

Minor comment - according to Gordon's Battles and Medals the Canadian issues of the Defence and War Medals are actually 0.800 fine silver. They clearly look different to (and better than) the cupro nickel UK issues but if you compare one to say a silver BWM you can see the materials are not quite the same.

No it may be a trick of the light but in my opinion the Victory Medal looks 100% correct.

I agree with Jeff that they appear correct / properly named. The RFA on the 1914-15 Star and RA on the other medals is one clear indicator that they are correct.

Nicely mounted group - look very smart. Re the medal ribbons - the 1939 Star was originally approved as the 1939-43 Star and then extended as the war went on - but ribbons were issued for wear before the war ended. According to Ribbons and Medals by Taprell Dorling the Canadian Volunteer Service Medal was also authorised in 1943 so I suspect that ribbon was also issued before the war ended. It could be that the concept of the maple leaf was added later and therefore wasn't perhaps envisaged back in 1943.

I believe the numbers are fairly accurate in that page as it looks as if the engraver (Mr Gillett) was actually paid based on those numbers. The page also contains another nugget of information - a breakdown of the numbers of 1911 medals issued to the various ambulance services (normally just quoted as a single total). 2755 St John Amb Brigade 310 St Andrews Amb Assn 130 Police Ambulance Service Making a total of 3195 (a total of 2623 is the number normally given in reference books). I have seen an un-named 1887 Met medal with a loose 1897 clasp before now (rejected as too expensive) but I do have a 1902 Met Coronation in bronze which has clearly never been named. There is also one plated silver 1902 going around which has been named to Mr F King (who was the Assistant Surveyor in the Receiver's Office) - I suspect a bronze spare medal that has been named and then silver plated.

In fact the number of 1911 Coronation Medals issued to the Met Police appears to be even higher than the number quoted in my book and other reference books. I have recently acquired a copy of an ledger record for the naming costs for 1911 medals and this shows: 163 COD (presumably uniform part of CO Div) issued 1.12.11 113 PCO (Public Carriage Office) issued 5.12.11 161 CID issued 5.12.11 146 Receiver & Commr Office (civilians) issued 5.12.11 5621 A - H Divisions issued Jan 12 4570 J - N Divisions issued Feb 12 3797 P - T (part) Divisions issued Mar 12 2852 T (rest) - W Divisions issued Apr 12 3567 X - Dockyards issued May 12 Total 20990 Medals. In addition 3 medals had to be re-engraved and 12 were originally held as unengraved, presumably as spares. For interest the cost of naming was 5d per medal and the ribbon cost 1s 3d per yard (each medal being issued with about 9 inches of ribbon)

Adding to the information already given: Cornelius Fairbrass joined the force 31/12/1977 with the Warrant Number 62076. He left 17/06/1895 (dismissed) and was then a PS serving in G Division (Finsbury) with the number 11G. This information comes from the discharge register and part of the old police orders database. I'm sorry there are holes in my book as mentioned above but this is because I was struggling to get a complete picture for many of the men who joined before around 1879. So if there were too many blanks in a man's entry I had little choice but to omit them as the entry was of limited value. I do have various bits of information that may help pick up those not included in the book so please feel free to ask if you can't find someone.

I'm afraid I don't know what the latest numbers being issued are. The last number issued 20th June 1911 before the Coronation was 100310 to PC Robert Blackley so if you were 158277 in 1967, which represents an approximate 58,000 difference in 56 years. By extrapolation I guess they would have just about passed the 200000 mark now. I will ask a friend of mine in the Met next week.

I understand what your saying Mervyn but to me it looks more like the sort of thing that only those who were in the unit would actually wear either on their lapel or as a tie tack.

I'm a medal collector who has an interest in the Met Police. I have some information at home but nowhere near as detailed as the old Police Orders database that used to be on line. So I can sometimes work out who a man is from his photo but not always. This one was easier because he stayed in the same Division for some time without being re-numbered. I have done quite a lot on Met Police Medals and have recently compiled a book on this. So I can use that to work out from most Met Jubilee / Coronation Medals who the man was - his warrant number and when he joined and then left (and why he left). Happy to try and answer any queries GMIC members have.

Seeing the recent post by Brian reminded me that I had a City of London Police pin badge which I have now located. It is for the Mounted Police. The badge is well made and measures approx 20mm x 17mm. The reverse has the makers name Jeeves Co Waterloo Liverpool who make tie pins etc for various police and fire services. I understand it was planned to disband the C of L Mounted Police section in 1999 as a cost savings measure. I don't know if this actually happened. Either way I doubt the section was particularly large suggesting the badge can't be that common. Or am I wrong?

I know this is an old thread but I have only recently joined GMI. The man in the photo is: Thomas Newstead He is definitely wearing the 1902 Police Coronation Medal Thomas Newstead joined the Met Police 21st May 1900 as a PC with the Warrant Number 86422. He was posted to G Division (Finsbury) with the divisional number 225 G. He continued to serve in G Div with that same number until 29th Oct 1913 when he was posted to X Div (Kilburn), still as a PC. He was pensioned 24th Jan 1927 and was still serving in X Div as a PC. His medal entitlement is: Police Coronation Medal 1902 (Met Police Issue) named as PC T Newstead G Div Police Coronation Medal 1911 (Met Police Issue) named as PC T Newstead I am happy to try and help with any queries you may have on Met Police Coronation / Jubilee medals (1887-1911)

However service in the RIM wasn't the long term career for this man. He joined in 1907 but resigned after three years. He then served in the R Innis Fus in WWI. See attached photo of him as a Lt. Note he is wearing the Africa General Service Medal ribbon (Somaliland 1908-10) which he managed to earn during his short period in the RIM.

I was recently sent the attached photo of a Sub Lieut of the RIM in full uniform. I've never seen a similar photo before. I thought it might be of interest to members as it clearly shows distinctive cuff pattern used by the Royal Indian Marine.

Ulsterman No sorry, but believe it or not he also struggles to tell whether a star is genuine or not. So what hope is there for us? Also the Army Medal Office never had any definitive records / information on the dies used in the manufacturing process. They merely issued the stars that were sent to them. I know he complained when the stars with larger rings started arriving and he got them to revert back to smaller rings. However recently I have seen officially issued stars with unsoldered rings (he probably would have sent those back as well if the Army Medal Office were still open with him in charge).

I believe this is a genuine Air Crew Europe Star awarded to F/Lt N V Borland who was kia 23/4/1945 whilst serving as a pilot with 266 Sqdn. The medal has been privately engraved.

I know the man who was the last head of the Army Medal Office before it closed down. He has frequently said that the stars produced over the years since the war have varied quite a bit, because multiple sets of dies have been used in their production. Also there are some stars that were made with various 'differences' like larger rings and others with the rings not soldered together. So apart from the numerous copies that have been produced, there are also variations in the officially issued stars. On the other point raised. The stars were not manufactured until after the war but two ribbons were issued while the war was still going on. These were the 1939-43 Star (later renamed 1939-45 Star) and the Africa Star. So soldiers etc were permitted to wear these ribbons before the actual medals were even produced. The initial ruling was that servicemen would receive either the 1939-43 Star or the Africa Star but not both (so they could only receive one ribbon initially). This was later changed and the awards were not mutually exclusive.