Odin Mk 3

The Met Dockyard Officers have the same records as Met Officers working in London. So men with Warrant Numbers between 74201 and 97500 will have service sheets in the MEPO 4 series (4/361 - 4/477). Also those who served through to get pensions will have pension papers which give a very brief career summary. Some men joined and were sent straight to Dockyard Divisions but many appear to have served in London first before being appointed to a dockyard later in their careers. In fact when men attested they swore oaths and these covered the London Divisions, the Royal Palaces and the Dockyard / Military Divisions (1st Div was primarily Woolwich Arsenal). Originally new recruits only swore the oaths that were relevant to their first posting London/Royal Palaces or Dockyards. So if you look at the rear of the older attestation registers you will see men re-attested when they were moved to Dockyard Division. This is useful if you don't have a service sheet and the man didn't stay long enough for a pension as it gives you the rough date when they moved to the dockyards. Later new recruits swore all three oaths together on joining so there was no need for re-attestation. I have noticed a number of men who came from places like Portsmouth, Plymouth and Pembroke who joined the Met, possibly hoping to get appointed to their home town. Often this didn't happen but I have some medals where(after several moves) the men finally made it back home - one example is Station Sergt Charles Palmer (58711) who was born just across the border in Cornwall. He started in W Div in 1875 and moved around quite a bit before going to 1st Div then 4th Div and finally 3rd Div (Devonport) in 1891. Regarding your query on training - the role in the dockyards was different to the policing in London so I suspect elements of training were done locally - remember the dockyards also had fire brigade and water police roles - so they would have needed to cover this at the dockyard.

I have the medal to PC Phasey which cost me £55 a few years ago (and I thought that was expensive then). I have had some more books printed now if anyone is interested but I regret I will only post to UK addresses as overseas postage is now sadly astronomical - airmail to Australia more than doubles the price of the book.

Last Batch (R - Z) 92901 Charles Tanner PC K, 98284 William Tanner PC N, 99551 Bertie Taylor PC M, 89222 William Taylor PC B, 100111 William Taylor PC J 97646 Alfred Thomas PC F, 99315 Hamilton Thomson PC B, 97764 George Thornley PC J, 99135 Robert Thurston PC N, 98281 Charles Timblick PC D 98670 Cyril Timms PC K, 93671 William Tinkler PC B, 90959 George Tizzard PC TA, 99458 John Tizzard PC TA, 99722 Charles Tombs PC B 99413 Harry Tong PC T, 98370 Henry Tralau PC E, 96169 Arthur Treers PC N, 97688 William Trinder PC S, 96706 Albert Tunbridge PC X 98575 John Turnbull PC L, 97342 Alfred Turvey PC X, 97391 William Tustin PC D, 93555 George Twilley PS S, 99190 Alfred Usher PC X 94908 Harry Venn PC N, 95305 Obadiah Waldock PC B, 92404 Edward Walkling PC K, 93257 Henry Walsh PC N, 100238 John Walsh PC D 96048 Thomas Walters PC W, 92930 Alfred Walton PC N, 91455 Frank Ward PC S, 90789 William Ward PC N, 100179 Leonard Wardman PC E 95419 Archibald Warner PC B, 90765 Richard Warnes PC K, 100007 Reginald Warren PC J, 91298 John Watling PS K, 93711 Abraham Watson PC E 97834 Thomas Watson PC N, 89107 Jack Webb PC H, 100277 Owen Wells PC M, 96382 Arthur West PC N, 95816 Thomas Weston PC K 95782 Arthur Weymouth PC R, 97609 Leonard White PC J, 93645 Thomas Whitehead PC D, 98380 Edward Wiggins PC X, 96266 George Williams PC N 95762 James Wilson PC F, 99900 George Wilson PC P, 98861 Edward Wiseman PC M, 89739 Wilson Wood PC K, 96963 Albert Wooding PC B 99462 Bernard Woolacott PC F, 98895 Henry Woolley PC N, 92335 Albert Wragg PC K, 96616 Albert Wright PC T, 99154 Sidney Wright PC M 98313 George Yapp PC L, 94772 Richard Yates PS N, 98262 Ernest Yorke PC K

Next batch (N - S) 90358 Henry Neighbour PS J, 98933 Charles Newman PC G, 91406 George Newson PC N, 98386 Denis Nolan PC N, 97523 Patrick Nolan PC B 98490 Willie Norman PC G, 96942 Edward Norris PC X, 94147 William Norris PS Y, 97597 Edgar Northeast PC J, 94762 Herbert Norton PC X 96732 David Nott PC N, 98405 Paul Nunn PC N, 91688 Charles O'Connell PS J, 90103 James O'Hara PC T, 97793 Charles Oliver PC F 93295 Leonard Olley PC K, 99240 Albert Orchard PC G, 97092 John Page PC N, 92316 Nelson Page PC J, 97973 Francis Painter PC K 94814 Ernest Pallant PC J, 98501 Ernest Pamby PC K, 94441 Richard Parish PC N, 92119 Peter Parker PC F, 95327 Albert Parker PC N 92396 Frederick Parrott PC B, 99843 Frank Parry PC B, 89354 Albert Partt PC Y, 99869 Walter Patten PCR, 92235 George Paul PC D 96503 Thomas Pauling PC L, 97256 George Payne PC J, 99296 Stewart Pearce PC E, 95620 Arthur Pearce PC N, 92699 Arthur Pearce PS V 99297 Thomas Peel PC B, 91252 Charles Penn PC G, 95161 William Petley PC J, 90862 William Phasey PC R, 97598 Edward Pickering PC M 97969 Frank Pile PC K, 99090 John Povey PC F, 97599 Henry Powell PC J, 100273 Richard Powell PC L, 99449 Richard Pratchett PC Y 98712 James Price PC W, 96483 John Prideaux PC E, 95661 Hubert Proudman PC K, 97721 Charles Puffett PC K, 93151 Henry Puttick PC F 94953 Arthur Quail PC B, 97537 Ernest Quant PC D, 96251 James Ragan PC J, 93859 James Rapley PC X, 91126 William Rees PC X 90667 Arthur Rendle PC N, 95171 Fred Revel PC N, 92160 William Reynolds PC K, 90518 John Rich PC W, 95037 Arthur Richards PC G 94460 Benjamin Richardson PC X, 94085 Charles Richardson PC TA, 97832 Frederick Richardson PC N, 95172 John Ricketts PC N, 96838 Alfred Ridgewell PC K 94209 Charles Robinson PC X, 99217 Charles Rockliffe PC J, 97873 George Roehrig PC T, 95997 Charles Rogers PC K, 98458 Thomas Rolfe PC G 99991 George Ronaldson PC E, 99814 Frank Rumbelow PC N, 99024 Arthur Russell PC B, 98950 James Russell PC J, 94705 Margerson Rutterford PC S 99993 George Ryder PC X, 97327 Augustus Sanders PC H, 90270 William Sansum PS G, 100302 Henry Sawkins PC B, 91212 David Sawyer PC X 92371 William Saxby PC X, 96322 Jacob Schummacher PC S, 99720 Arthur Scott PC B, 92266 Thomas Scott PC B, 91936 George Sealey PC G 94954 Edmond Searing PC E, 100236 Albert Searles PC G, 91142 Alexander Seekings PC N, 97479 Samuel Setchell PC V, 96680 Spencer Sharpe PC D 92569 Harry Sherrod PC D, 95664 Charlie Sherwood PC F, 99052 James Sim PC N, 98937 Charles Sim PC J, 93707 Henry Simm PC J 95936 Joe Simmonds PC N, 90863 Harry Slaymaker PC D, 99054 James Small PC N, 99958 Hubert Smart PC F, 89989 Bertie Smith PC G 93212 Ernest Smith PC N, 96933 George Smith PC W, 92003 James Smith PC E, 95240 James Smith PC H, 95067 Alfred Smith PC D 92240 Ernest Smith PC B, 99896 Thomas Smith PC W, 95155 George Smithers PC K, 93869 William Smithers PC B, 95752 William Smyth PC F 95203 Arthur South PC B, 94864 George Spring PC X, 98517 Joseph Stacey PC K, 92898 Charles Stanley PC T, 89696 Reuben Starling PC X 95727 Archibald Stephens PC F, 99778 Bertie Stephens PC J, 95330 George Stephenson PC B, 95715 Walter Stevens PC F, 90890 Albert Stevenson PC B 100226 Ernest Stiles PC T, 98890 Charles Stirton PC K, 90843 George Stokes PC G, 92091 Albert Stoneham PC X, 92680 Stephen Stoner PC F 96873 James Stoodley PC V, 90737 Ernest Storer PC N, 91665 Edward Storey PC E, 98598 Herbert Sturdy PC N, 92241 Andrew Sullivan PC Y 100133 William Swan PC X

Next Batch (H - M) 89099 Walter Hammett PC X, 96463 William Hampton PC N, 99888 William Hanson PC W, 95760 John Harbour PC F, 97243 Herbert Harfield PC R 98486 Herbert Harris PC G, 91519 Albert Hart PC X, 99338 John Hatton PC M, 95264 George Hawkins PC D, 97967 William Hayden PC K 93577 Herbert Hayes PC N, 95263 Leo Hazell PC F, 90161 Herbert Head PC X, 95070 William Heather PC P, 97551 Edwin Hewes PC W 92539 George Hickford PC N, 97269 William Hicks PC W, 98425 Reginald Hill PC J, 94756 Stephen Hill PCB, 89400 George Hill PCM 98500 Charlie Hillier PC E, 97301 Walter Hills PC B, 91470 Walter Hines PC M, 98129 Arthur Hinkley PC X, 93410 Frederick Hinkley PC S 97589 Herbert Hitchcox PC B, 98101 William Hobbs PC R, 99181 David Hobden PC B, 98248 Frank Hodges PC W, 97157 Alfred Holmes PC G 96398 William Holmes PC G, 93160 Thomas Homewood PC K, 92874 Alfred Horne PC M, 90813 Thomas Horsler PC D, 96247 Joe Houchin PC S 95029 Charles Howson PC Y, 92363 Archibald Hubbard PC B, 96302 Alfred Hubble PC F, 93791 John Hughes PC X, 95856 Frank Humphrey PC X 98842 Henry Humphreys PC R, 95824 Alfred Hunt PC X, 98840 Robert Hunter PC H, 98925 Robert Hunter PC J, 93866 Sidney Huntley PC X 92964 James Hurley PC J, 100144 Frank Hutching PC G, 92413 Robert Hutchings PC W, 98147 William Ingrams PC G, 91928 Charles Irvine PC N 96782 Charles Irvine PC S, 98249 Herman James PC P, 96524 James James PC N, 98680 Robert James PC J, 96719 Henry James PC N 96948 Thomas Janes PC X, 94528 Ernest Jarman PC N, 96977 George Jarvis PC K, 91835 Theodore Jayne PC B, 94123 George Jeffs PC D 93139 George Jenkins PC P, 97468 Ernest Jennings PC T, 90420 David John PC X, 97790 Fred Johnson PC W, 91268 Henry Jones PC J 97297 William Jones PC N, 99402 Edward Jordan PC G, 92564 James Juby PS V, 96404 John Juniper PC N, 98625 Harry Keen PC G 93901 Thomas Kehoe PC K, 92310 Frederick Kemp PC S, 99145 William Kendrick PC X, 97020 Arthur Kettle PC G, 92098 Michael Kiernan PC Y 96835 Leonard King PC B, 95577 Charles King PC W, 97097 William Kingdom PC M, 98928 Richard Kirkbride PC N, 89760 Frederick Knight PC F 91111 Samuel Knott PC B, 95776 Arthur Landamore PC B, 97841 George Langridge PC N, 96122 Arthur Latimer PC K, 100147 Gilson Lavis PC X 99005 Frank Law PC R, 91968 Robert Leigh PC L, 96131 Herbert Leonard PC P, 96305 Albert Lewis PC P, 97355 Horace Lines PC R 97717 William Lock PCK, 95576 Albert Long PC L, 94242 Herbert Lovett PC N, 91048 Reginald Lowrie PC N, 92865 ? MacBean PC B 99676 Ronald MacDonald PC N, 99446 Thomas Macdonald PC P, 97225 John MacDougall PC X, 99810 Thomas Mackenzie PC L, 97823 Hubert Madasa PC M 100253 John Malcolm PC P, 92722 Joseph Malyon PC B, 95657 Charles Manchester PC J, 98743 Patrick Mangan PC F, 89562 James Marston PC J 94601 James Martin PC N, 84962 Thomas Maslin PC X, 100130 Percival Matthews PC F, 96040 Ernest May PC G, 98151 Frederick May PC TA 93035 George McCall PC M, 100250 Lawrence McEnroe PC P, 92380 Francis McIvor PC X, 97914 Thomas McLeod PC T, 97719 John McPherson PC R 94328 Robert Melton PC L, 93461 Charles Miles PC X, 97275 William Mills PC M, 93377 Harry Mills PC B, 96086 Edward Mitchell PC V 99048 Albert Moat PC N, 95811 Frederick Moody PC X, 96481 Charles Moore PC R, 99500 Harry Moore PC R, 99988 William Morris PC R 99238 William Munro PC V, 99293 Thomas Murphy PC V, 94901 William Myall PC N

Next Batch (Surnames D - G) 96335 Herbert Dafforn PC J, 98166 Walter Dale PC B, 93482 Arthur Dallman PC N, 94371 Frederick Dance PC X, 99918 Percy Darke PC X 99729 Charles Dart PC X, 97137 William Davey PC J, 99392 Benjamin Davies PC L, 98108 Walter Davies PC X, 98094 David Davies PC R 10005 Henry Davies PC B, 92823 George Davis PC S, 99284 Horace Davis PC X, 83197 Joseph Dawson PC F, 96403 Vincent Delaney PC E 97966 Arthur Dell PC W, 95951 Albert Densley PC X, 93846 Daniel Dineen PS S, 96299 Edward Diplock PC G, 100247 Robert Dollar PC G 93344 Alfred Dorling PS S, 97447 Frederick Dove PC K, 99115 Ernest Downes PC H, 96551 Sydney Dray PC N, 94835 Albert Drudge PC F 91960 Arthur Dudney PC K, 99883 Harold Duggan PC D, 97415 Owen Duggan PC E, 97457 Frederick Dunkin PC X, 98342 Sidney Dunmow PC X 98433 James Dymond PC G, 98428 James Edward PC J, 100101 William Edwards PC F, 91106 William Edwards PC R, 93708 Samuel Edworthy PC F 94807 Frederick Elder PC B, 99174 William Eller PC S, 98649 Albert Elliott PC K, 98650 Hugh Embley PC L, 97232 Frederick Emery PC X 97488 Alfred Enever PC Y, 98735 George Etches PC F, 92558 Ernest Evans PC R, 99977 Benjamin Evans PC N, 91962 Gilbert Evans PC D 99987 Lancelot Everatt PC T, 99507 Ernest Fancett PC T, 100294 Walter Fancourt PC S, 98202 John Farnham PC J, 92691 George Farrell PC F 96129 Alexander Fawns PC J, 99731 John Fearn PC R, 98736 Robert Fearnside PC X, 93953 Edward Featherstone PC TA, 99898 William Feeney PC W 98484 Francis Fenton PC G, 97898 Charles Fernee PC W, 96428 Walter Ferrett PC K, 85562 Thomas Fewery PC X, 98443 Ernest Finch PC J 99530 William Fisher PC E, 98422 John Forbes PC J, 96643 William Foster PC N, 96685 Frank Foster PC X, 91679 William Fox PC X 94133 Arthur Frampton PC W, 94526 William Franklin PC N, 99311 Thomas Fraser PC E, 96596 William Fraser PC E, 98002 Henry Freed PC B 95199 Arthur Froment PC V, 94172 William Fuller PC X, 92626 Stanley Gear PS Y, 89996 Alfred George PC G, 92947 Walter Giblett PC F 96738 Alfred Gibson PC N, 94527 Albert Gibson PS V, 100124 Charles Gillard PC X, 92271 William Gipson PC X, 92858 Alfred Girling PC B 100125 Henry Gloster PC E, 95698 Alexander Gonzawa PC N, 97816 Albert Gooderham PC N, 96928 Henry Goodrich PC J, 94319 Thomas Gormley PC R 100280 Joseph Gough PC M, 98103 Thomas Grace PC N, 94999 Conrad Gray PC K, 95823 Edwin Gray PC N, 95700 George Green PC J 90811 Walter Green PS N, 98190 Joseph Gregory PC S, 94426 John Griffin PC L, 95767 Herbert Gristwood PC E, 94978 Walter Guy PS V

Here is the start of all the 1919 Met Strikers I can find who are entitled to just a single 1911 Police Coronation Medal, the division is the one they were serving in at the time of the strike (surnames A - C). 99996 Lewis Acland PC S, 97734 William Allan PC L, 92382 Harry Allen PC N, 94827 George Allen PC W, 99031 William Allerton PC E 89592 Henry Allsworth PC D, 99652 Sidney Ambrose PC S, 92761 Ernest Antill PC X, 92438 Thomas Applin PC P, 95693 Frederick Archer PC T 91503 Clarence Arnell PC N, 98066 George Arnold PC R, 97015 Arnold Arrowsmith PC N, 98392 Joseph Ashley PC T, 95251 James Ashworth PC M 94168 George Asquith PC Y, 98227 Frederick Atkins PC W, 89387 William Atkinson PC G, 92495 Daniel Ayling PS L, 89362 George Baker PC R 91022 Henry Baldwin PC F, 93600 Herbert Ballard PS B, 96032 William Banwell PC K, 94853 David Barclay PC X, 99385 George Barker PC X 95947 Sydney Barnes PC V, 97978 William Barron PC N, 89897 Alfred Barter PC T, 90145 James Bartlett PC F, 94717 William Beaman PC G 99425 Walter Beattie PC J, 97740 Ernest Beck PC E, 98416 John Beckett PC J, 92047 William Beckwith PC X, 94871 Doanld Beech PC X 92409 ErnestBell PS N, 99611 Stanley Belsey PC L, 89722 Frederick Benham PC B, 96940 Noah Bennett PC N, 97893 Burton Benson PC W 92653 Edwin Berridge PC K, 98234 James Bessell PC L, 93907 George Bingham PS B, 91328 Charles Bird PC B, 91802 Charles Bird PC B 98830 George Blower PC M, 99763 Philip Board PC N, 94229 Frederick Boast PC X, 94238 Joseph Bond PC N, 95165 Thomas Boorn PC J 93130 Thomas Bourne PC F, 99325 Frederick Bowman PC D, 90792 Richard Box PC TA, 98647 James Brackenridge PC B, 94088 T Bransgrove PC TA 97400 George Brean PC L, 93450 John Brien PC N, 90130 Charles Briggs PC X, 93448 Alfred Brittain PC B, 89550 William Brock PC G 99386 William Brooksbank PC G, 98873 Henry Brown PC N, 96567 William Brown PC T, 97980 William Brown PC B, 95356 Henry Brownson PC K 98915 Andrew Bruce PC G, 98683 Walter Bruce PC T, 91124 Francis Bullocke PC L, 100011 Francis Bune PC F, 89643 George Bush PC X 99469 John Butcher PC J, 100288 Arthur Butcher PC T, 95074 Ernest Butcher PC N, 98328 Benjamin Butler PC X, 96600 Herbert Button PC S 95073 Alfred Butts PC W, 93022 Charles Cackett PC P, 93767 Albert Carpenter PC F, 97782 Ernest Carter PC F, 96927 Arthur Cartwright PC N 96532 William Chandler PC K, 97094 George Child PC T, 98731 John Chipperfield PC N, 98732 Cecil Chrismas PC F, 95883 John Christian PC J 89187 Frederick Chudleigh PC G, 94665 Harry Clark PC F, 98588 James Clark PC N, 93765 Thomas Clarke PS L, 100254 Alfred Claydon PC B 92686 Herbert Cleary PC J, 93952 Walter Clifford PC Y, 94919 D'Arcy Coffin PC D, 99750 Arthur Colban PC N, 98876 Albert Coldman PC X 96858 Horace Cole PC R, 99098 George Coleman PC J, 95742 Sidney Coleman PC N, 99828 George Colenutt PC B, 100155 Frederick Collins PC F 93297 James Conroy PC M, 97907 Charles Cook PC J, 99854 Ernest Cooper PC K, 99764 Harry Cooper PC J, 97807 Horace Copping PC L 100289 Bertie Corby PC D, 97944 Hubert Couchman PC B, 90720 Ernest Cousins PC F, 91565 Samuel Cousins PC X, 98616 Frederick Cox PC J 94628 George Craddock PC D, 91089 William Creber PC N, 92180 Timothy Creedon PC J, 99168 Bertie Crisp PC S, 97286 Henry Cullen PC X

From my figures for the strikers the following breakdown is given: There are the 532 recipients of single 1911 Medals There 68 recipients of 1902 and 1911 Medals There is one recipient of 1897 and 1902 Medals (Boer War recall) There are 18 recipients of 1897, 1902 and 1911 Medals I am trying to include a complete roll although I'm having some formatting issues.

I've just been through my spreadsheet and tried to calculate how many Met Officers with police medals were dismissed for going on strike in 1919. I will have to double check the numbers as I keep getting different results but it is in the region of 620. Most got single 1911 medals but some got 1902 and 1911 pairs and a few got 1897, 1902 and 1897 trios. That suggests the single medals are not particularly scarce and I would suggest comparative values of £30 - £35 for a single medal and perhaps a 50% premium for a striker. However the trios to strikers would be more attractive as these guys really lost out. Some would have been close to retirement and they would have lost their pension entitlement although I think they may have got a rebate on their superannuation contributions many years later.

In Feb Dreme 70 asked 'Any joy on getting your book reprinted ? ' In response to several queries such as the one above, I now have a new batch of books The Metropolitan Police, The Men and Their Medals. This covers the Jubilee and Coronation Medals awarded to the Met Police 1887 - 1911 and lists some 33,000 officers with their warrant numbers, dates of service and medal entitlement.

Yes I believe the Police Orders are held at Kew. They are also at the Police Heritage Centre at Earls Court. I have a friend who used to work in Scotland Yard and he would look them up for me in their library. Unfortunately he is based elsewhere now. I forgot to mention those CRSs I referred to above are NOT held at Kew they are only at the Heritage Centre. Kew does not hold police records for other forces and I understand Kew will not be accepting any more records from the Met so the current information will never be deposited there.

I'm not sure whether men were actually sacked and re-instated in 1918 but I suspect not. Remember the war was still on and the Government wanted the situation resolved, especially as the pay of London Police was inadequate for the time. The Police Orders for 31/7, 1/8 and 2/8/1919 contain lists of all the men who were sacked. Unfortunately they are listed there by name and Divisional Number and not Warrant Number. In general all strikers medals have a premium, irrespective of division. One could argue that N Div are worth less as there may be more of them!

If your man had gone on strike in 1919 he would have been sacked (the Police Orders listing the strikers are mostly dated early August) - end of story as the Commissioner was determined they would all be sacked or he would resign. So if your man retired in Oct 1919 he definitely didn't go on strike. The 1918 strike was different. The Government were supportive of the Police claims and it ended with the previous Commissioner being forced out and the men getting a good pay rise. In 1919 of the 18,200 Met Officers only 1,056 went on strike - I Inspector, 28 PSs and the remainder were PCs. A lot of these men were from N Division as they were encouraged to strike by their Inspector (Nathan Dessent who was also sacked - what a name for a malcontent!). He was a somewhat unstable character and this was the turning point - he was confined to a lunatic asylum three days later. Best thing is that he had a 1902 and a 1911 medal - so presumably they are still out there somewhere. By the way if you have a copy of my book the 1911 strikers are indicated in the Reason for Leaving column - the Dis (for discharged) is in bold lettering.

If you can locate the associated Police Order(s) it can be quite enlightening. Others are sometimes much less informative. Below is the result for PS Meecham who was subsequently reverted to PC. He obviously didn't learn his lesson as he was later disciplined again (with just loss of pay the second time) for arguing with a motorist who complained about his behaviour. If you are researching a man who served on into the 1930s his records will also be shown on a CRS (Central Record of Service) Card which replaced the earlier service sheets. The reverse shows the details of commendations and also disciplinary offences. I think the information was virtually copied straight from the police orders. Here is an extract for one PC - reading between the lines his second offence is for damaging a police vehicle but failing to own up to it.

Unfortunately the Attestation Registers only start at Warrant No 51491 - he joined on 8/2/1869. Using the rate of joining at that time I would say that Warrant Number 51320 joined the Met in early December 1868.

I think this is a problem for many medal issues. Any police officer who retired in May 1951 (a month before the Police LS was instituted) would not get a medal. Good luck to Mr Donaldson but I think he won't be successful with his petition. The thing is with all these issues if you open the flood gates just how far do you go back - to June 1951! I noted that on the Spec Constab LS the bars are mounted with the last bar nearest the suspender - I have to admit I have never seen them that way around before (technically they are upside down as normally the first bar earned is fitted nearest the suspender).

In answer to Dave's query: In other words, was there a PC 30 at Chatham and another PC 30 at Devonport ? Yes the allocation of divisional numbers was managed by the divisions and not centrally - so technical at any one time there could have been an officer with the same number in all five divisions (1st - 5th). Note because 5th Div was very small the highest number in use there would have been around 40. 1887 5th Div 1 Ch Insp 1 Insp 4 PSs 28 PCs 1897 5th Div 1 Ch Insp 1 Insp 4 PSs 28 PCs 1902 5th Div 1 Ch Insp 1 Insp 5 PSs 36 PCs

Thanks Dave - I wasn't sure about how old it was. It just seemed worth pointing out that one man had served his whole career with that particular number. It's even worse with trying to identify men in the dockyard divisions (1st - 5th) as their helmet plates all had an anchor and the number but nothing to distinguish 2nd from 3rd division etc.

I have had some success with identifying police officers in photos from their helmet plate numbers and their combination of coronation / jubilee medals. Because numbers were re-allocated the same isn't quite so easy with helmet plates on their own. I have tried but almost always been frustrated because invariably I have ended up with multiple options for the Divisional Numbers. Again this isn't my field so I don't know what date this helmet plate is and you will probably tell me I've got the wrong period but I can say that for the reign of GV this number was mainly held by just one man. Warrant No 97902 Albert Hayward who joined 7/2/1910 as H 314 and retired 11/03/1935 as a PC in H Div (still H 314).

No I can't find any suitable candidates for this medal either. As there are no medal rolls I suspect they may have used the weekly pay lists as the basis for who was entitled to medals. It took up to a year to issue the 1911 Coronation Medals to the Met due to the time it took to name them all, so if a similar situation existed after the 1897 Jubilee Robinson may have been joining as G Div were getting their 1897 medals. However I doubt he would have been issued with a medal in error. Unfortunately there is no photo of the naming but zooming in on the main image makes me think the medal definitely hasn't been skimmed. Of course it could be a case of self bestowal by Insp Robinson later in his career - there would have been a few unnamed 1897 medals floating around which were held as spares (I have a 1902 Coronation blank) but they were probably held by the Receiver's Office as custodians of Met Police property. Without seeing the naming it is impossible to know for sure if it is a 'named up' example.

Sorry I can't find a PC C Castill anywhere either - certainly not in my book or in the list of men who were discharged from 1889 to 1919. I can't even find a man with a name that looks anything like that

I only have some information for the Metropolitan Police. The Police Orders show some retired officers re-joined as Reserve Police Officers at the end of August, several days before the war actually started. So clearly those mechanisms were already in place. Note quite a few of these reserve officers resigned before the war ended - possibly they were a bit too long in the tooth for plodding the streets etc. Younger officers with recent service in the forces would have been recalled - they were also recalled for the Boer War and WWI. In WWI this even included some men who had completed their Army Reserve time. However in WWI there were also some officers who chose to resign to join the forces. These men were initially shown as leaving the force but most were later allowed to continue their service and the entry for leaving was struck through and a later Police Order reference date is given (presumably the date they re-joined) as if they never left. I don't think men were actually called up from the Police in WWII as they would have probably been treated as being in a reserve occupation but obviously some chose to leave in order to serve in the armed forces. Joining the specials or AFS may have been a useful ploy if you wanted to avoid being called up. Most Police forces did increase the number of their Specials in WWII so this would have helped offset the loss of men who joined the army etc.

In the National Archives there are several volumes on the open shelves - these are labelled Coronation Medal 1953 UK Issues. There are in alphabetical order but show a section reference on the right of the page - UK 8 is UK Police. This suggests that a series of section lists were produced first (which may still exist somewhere but I've never seen any) and then later combined to produce these overall alphabetical lists. The lists do include some foreign diplomats and dignitaries who were in London and also some UK citizens who were working abroad but I don't think it shows other overseas personnel like Australians who were nominated by the Australian Government. The part page for Pickering (H = Holland) is shown below and it also includes someone working in the Sudan who sounds British. Sorry I forgot to mention about the Defence Medal - I own a few groups with 1953 Coronation Medals plus GVI Police LS Medals and they also all include a Defence Medal. I can't see how anyone entitled to a GVI issue LS wouldn't have also earned the Defence Medal (or perhaps other WWII medals if they had broken their service to serve in the armed forces). Never seen that pair on their own before - they don't look like they have been remounted recently either.

I've got an order at the printer's now and I await the 1st off for checking as it's a new printer I've had to use. So hopefully soon

It's a pity with both these examples that the Divisional Numbers were re-allocated to individuals who joined around the same time as the previous number holders, which meant they had identical medal entitlements. It is worth trying though as I have managed to identify several Policemen from their photos and that includes one someone asked me about that I found I actually had the man's medals.