Steve K.

Bob....Why more so than an OM badge?

Staying on subject of my IMME badge, those collectors that have a collection with a variety of LW pilot badges, I'd ask this question: What distinguishing features set apart a first pattern pilot badge from a second pattern? Im talking about general features that are shared across the different makers (confused...see below). Look at both Assmann or Juncker since these are the only real choices for this discussion. First Pattern badges always have: 1) Both wings' leading edges are pronounced and detailed 2) The Bird's right wing closest to the body always has a set of three small feathers that are different in shape from the remaining feathers 3) Thinner wreaths 4) Thinner profiles to the eagles 5) A cut-out between the legs (although there are 1st patterns that don't have this, and some 2nd patterns that do) 6) Talons have balled feet (although this can be a stretch....it can be generally said that the talons are more detailed) 7) More hand finishing cuts 8)...... Fill in 8) or more with those characteristics you find between KNOWN first and second pattern LW eagles from the same maker but that show consistency across makers. These same characteristics are found on my IMME aluminum badge when compared to the few known second pattern IMME pilot badges.

Kurt I found the old thread. I would like to see a better picture of the back of the wing seen in post #9. What are the dark marks seen on the reverse of this wing? Cheers, Steve

Kurt While I have not seen your badge completely, if it is original, like the one on Brian's website, then it is no 'variant', it's just an extremely rare badge. You wrote >>>>>> ......just slightly cruder.......>>>>>>> I will have to disagree with you here. I believe my badge is actually a better strike and more 'classic' features of a pre-war bird (i.e. pronounced curvature of the neck, more detailed feathers, highly detailed claws and legs....etc.). You wrote >>>>>> ....Nice badge! I'm jealous! >>>>>>> Thanks. I think its a nice badge too. But don't be jealous.....given the arguments that I illustrate, I'm leaning more towards the fact that this was a limited series and may not have seen much circulation. Kindest Regards, Steve

Eric and J Temple-West Exactly! I too have never seen another LW qualification badge by IMME/JMME in aluminum. So....We have a pilot badge in a form never seen before (by experienced LW collectors) using a material that was rarely used, and certainly not used by this company for other LW qualification badges (as we know to date), using odd hardware that fits no other maker, AND in near mint condition for such a fragile material! This would send up one HUGE red flag for me!!! Either fake.......(which would be the conclusion that most people would make) or you would be holding one of the most elusive (read: RARE) LW pilot badges known in the collecting world!! So...your challenge is to take all your experience...everything you know about details, construction, quality, etc., apply it here (or more aptly, apply those skills while holding the badge), and make your judgement on a karyotype of badge you have never seen before. I believe only the skilled collector will see that this badge is authentic and fits into the realm of 'war or pre-war production'.

Wing detail

Eric I can agree with all of your statements. My photos do not due this badge justice.....if you were to have it in hand, I imagine it would take you about 10 seconds to realize that the badge is authentic. The odd JMME eye that's seen typically on their RO/AG is seen here....another indication that it's part of the same family. The large hing and clasp may be an attempt to strengthen the aluminum badges, as they certainly may have seen Assmann and Juncker hinges and clasps breaking too often. A larger hing and clasp gives more surface area for attachment, and thus a stronger product. This is just conjecture on my part. Is there ANY other IMME/JMME LW qualification badges in ALUMINUM?

Ooops, I forgot about that!! Plus no Centennial (enlisted after '97)....SO, he was somehow involved in the Boxer Rebellion Relief Efforts...... War Merit thru FAM were for Boxer Rebellion.......and the St.Henry/EKII came late 1918.

It's a variant I've never seen before! Even if the wing was cut-out.....

Rick Maybe the War Merit Cross was given early in the war for 'homefront' duties (non-combatant), and he received the other awards late in the war, after being called to the front, never to return the War Merit after the Imperial collapse. Just a guess!

Here's the cadillac version of the Strelitz Cross for Distinction in War, I. Klasse. I would have given my cat's left paw for this cross. I must have missed it by seconds....sorry sold! Note the really nice hardware on the reverse, the even stipling to the background of the central disk, and the incuse-relief date and its font. (Photo courtesy of Niemann?, Hamburg)

Brian, I think you are right. The aluminum badges would be breaking more often, and either being repaired or, more likely, replaced with stronger metal varieties. But why hasn't another one of these "First" Pattern IMME badges surfaced? I guess given the fact that there has only been 2 or 3 legit IMME second pattern pilot badges shown throughout the 'electronic' community (those able and capable of Internet access), it would make sense that there would be fewer "First" pattern badges around. Still, it would be nice to see another!

GregM, Biro, & Gordon Thank you for your opinions! The edge of the 'clamshell' is sharp and made from a thin metal overall. Its very delicate and shows a nice patina. The small bit of excess near the interior corner beadings (pointed out by GregM) and the 'not-so-black' black paint put me off thinking it was post '45. Kindest Regards, Steve

Just to be clear, there is no doubt in my mind that this is an early pattern IMME Pilots badge. Eagle, wing fletchings, wreath...all unique (although the wreath closely resembles Junckers wreath). You could say 1st pattern (and I'm comfortable saying that), but ALL IMME types need to be known to state this confidently. My questions are: Was this a production series, a limited series, or a singular prototype? If a production series or a limited series, Where are the other IMME pilot badges like this one? IF its a prototype, why mark it with the IMME mark? Why use such oversized hardware for hinge and catch, which clearly deviates from other first pattern badges from other companies, whether made in aluminum or buntmetal? Or is the hardware a repair (which seems unlikely by the looks)?

details

Years ago I thought this EK1 was original to the time period 1914-1918 but now I'm sure it isn't. Is it a modern reproduction or possibly a TR restrike? May I have your opinions. Thanks, Steve

J Temple-West and Rich Wreath height (long axis): 51.7mm Wreath width (short axis): 41.4mm Wing tip to Wing tip: 65.4mm SEM: approx. 1.3mm for each axis

The only characteristic that has given me pause is the monstrous hinge and catch, yet I have never seen another like it!!!

Well, all I can say is, everyone had their chance to hold it at least for a few minutes (and to even purchase it!). A large number of my pilot badges were at the MAX. Only one collector asked to examine it. I've had it for years now, and one young collector (years ago) told me it was a very good reproduction, and I said "A reproduction of what?" Show me another! To date, this is the only IMME I've seen with this bird and wreath, only one in aluminum, and there are no reproduction of this badge floating around (yet!). Naturally people are hesitant and call it an ugly bird when they first see it, but after looking at it next to other first pattern birds, it has many of the same characteristics and fits nicely into the IMME evolution. The second pattern IMME has already been reproduced, and I've only seen one real second pattern pilot badge I trust (on Brian's Website). There was one other on WAF from an Italian pilot's estate. Other people have called it an 'ugly goose' but beauty is in the eye of the beholder, no doubt! Too many people fawn over Juncker LW badges, when if you study details and crispness, Assmann wins hands down (I believe you feel the same way too!!) on all their badges. To each, their own! I find the IMME bird beautiful!

last one

more!

more!

I'm not sure what pix/angle you'd like to see. If you need more, just ask.

I will post close-ups of the IMME tonight.

Here are my pilot badges in aluminum: Assmann, Juncker & IMME I have yet to see another IMME like this one. The wreath, eagle, hinge, and catch are unique. To date only a handful of collectors have seen this badge. Enjoy!!