Graham Stewart

Gordon, Just noted this post about service documents and the Imperial Yeomanry and having a feeling they may have followed the same rules as the Volunteer Service Companies attached to Regular Infantry units. Men from Volunteer Battalions of infantry regiments who wished to serve in South Africa were discharged from the Volunteers and then re-enlisted into the Regular Army's V.S.C.'s, under a one year term of service, after which they were again discharged and returned home. The regimental numbers of those serving in V.S.C.'s are given in blocks over & above those then being used by regular troops. I somewhere on this computer the exact number, but can't find it, but something like 2000 over and above the last number used by regulars. So if Tommy Atkins at the Depot was 5000, then V.S.C. man was 7000 and so on. Now here's the bit I still have to look into. My copies of Volunteer Regulations for 1901 are quite specific in that the regimental number of a man "Discharged" would "never" be used again. So we have all of these former Volunteers returning from V.S.C. service with the regulars, who go back to their old units and if V.R.'s are true to their word, then all of these blokes were given new regimetal numbers in their Volunteer Bn's on return to the U.K. A similar scheme was already operating in the Militia at the time wherebye after four years a lad could take his Discharge and have the Certificate in his hand. He nips down the pub reflects on what he's done and the good times he's had with his Militia mates. Off he trots back to the Colour Sgt Instructor and asks to sign back on again. No problem with that, but he's renumbered everytime. Graham.

Sorry lads, but I don't think it's military at all and possibly belongs to one of the many civilian military style bands then in existence at the beginning of the 20th Century. You often see photo's of them at postcard fairs and as you see them wearing obvious scarlet bandsmens tunics you home in on them, only to be disappointed. Luckily on some they'll have the name of the band on the card so you don't make that mistake. Graham.

Definately T/CYCLIST and the 'T' used is a greatcoat one at that, which are usually found being worn by second & third line units, later in the war. Graham.

Wartime, It's been cobbled together, although I suspect that the two crowns, are actually either pre-1881 officers collar badges, as the rank was worn on the collar prior to this period. Lieutenant Colonels and Lieutenants wore a silver bullion crown, but may have worn metal with a frock coat. By 1881 rank insignia of officers had made its way onto the shoulder. The centre piece of the badge is probably taken from a pouch badge or some other ornament. Graham.

John, Photo was taken between 1902 and 1905 as the troops are wearing the "Broderick" cap which was never a popular item of head-dress among the troops from it's introduction in 1902, until it's removal in 1905. As it looks like an Home Service Barrack setting it could possibly be taken sometime around 1904+, as this is when the 1st Bn, Welch Regt returned to the U.K. after campaigning in South Africa. The cap itself would be phased out over a period of time as stocks of the new cap became available. Graham.

Hunter99, The Manchester Royal Engineer Cadet Corps was recognised on the 7th October 1921, under Army Order 493/21. It was still around in 1937, being commanded by Cadet/Lt-Col C.E.Lightfoot and was affiliated to the 42nd Divisional Engineers(T.A.). I'm not certain whether or not it survived beyond the last war. Graham.

Right lads, Need some help here. Does anyone have in their collection either actual items or coloured prints depicting gunners of the Royal Horse, Field or Garrison Artillery wearing forage caps, otherwise known as the "pill-box" cap, which was worn during the 1880's through to 1902 when it was abolished as a mode of head-dress. I need to know the colour of the band which went around the cap for the Regulars, Militia and Volunteers of the above mentioned artillery units. Can anyone help? Regards, Graham.

Hunter99, Nice photo, definatley showing a small 'T' as show in my last post and not the larger great coat type. T.F. Regulations 1912 amended to 1st Decmber 1914, Para 451 simply states;-"The letter 'T' will be worn below the badges of rank on all shoulder cords and shoulder straps. In service dress the 'T' in bronze will be worn on the collar of the jacket below the collar badge". Alas no measurement of the 'T' is given. Graham.

[attachmentid=36742] Harribobs, Cobbled this together from my spares to show the difference. Below the officers bronze collar badge is the correct size 'T' and below that the slightly larger 'C' for Cadet Officers. The slightly large 'T' actually has a gilt finish and may be off the officers 'blue patrol' jacket(collar/shoulder strap). The greatcoat 'T's are much larger as you can see and were worn as shown without numerals, but they eventually migrated to the other ranks SD jacket shoulder straps in Home Service T.F. units. Graham.

[attachmentid=36697] Harribobs, What size are those two plain brass T's that you have on display, are they lugged or bladed? As they actually look like greatcoat T's, which were introduced onto other ranks Service Dress shoulder straps later in the War, usually for Home Service Territorial battalions. They were usually worn with the regimental title only on the great coat without numerals i.e. T/MANCHESTER. The officers SD collar T's were half as big again as shoulder title T's and usually in bronze to match the collar badge. Just added the photo for interest as it shows the collar badges & T's being worn. Graham.

Grant, The Medal Index Card for William Broadhurst, Grenadier Gds, has his regimental number as 2929 and not 29291, so what has it got on the medal rim? If it's the four figure number then I would think he's either a regular or returned 1st Class Reservist. Graham.

Shako, Have seen these before, but never a run of 24, and was also told what they were for, but can't remember now. However think it be some promotional thing or something to do with these presentation sets that you see you sometimes saw advertised in military magazines. Can you remember the one they did with all of the minature campaign medals? Obviously repro, but the nice officers silver/gilt finish would make them look nice in a frame, which you were persuaded to buy by the promoters. Graham.

Caryl, Brief digest of service of the 15th(York East Riding)Regiment of Foot from 1845;- 1st Battalion,15th Foot Ceylon 1845. Ireland 1855. Gibraltar 1856. England 1857. Channel Islands 1859. Ireland 1860. New Brunswick 1862. Bermuda 1868. Ireland 1870. Channel Islands 1873. England 1874. Ireland 1878. Retitled in 1881 as 1st Bn,The East Yorkshire Regiment England 1883 . Gibraltar 1885. West Indies 1886. South Africa 1888. Egypt 1893. India 1895. Burma 1903. England 1906. France 1914. 2nd Battalion, 15th Foot re-formed 1858, Malta 1859. Gibraltar 1863. Ireland 1868. Channel Islands 1870. England 1871. India 1875. Second Afghan War 1879-80 Retitled 2nd Bn,The East Yorkshire Regiment 1881. Aden & England 1888. Ireland 1894 England & South Africa 1900. England 1902. Burma 1905. India 1909. England 1914. France 1915. Campaign honours in that period for the East Yorks are;- "Afghanistan 1879-80" & "South Africa 1900-02" Hope this is of some use to you. Graham.

Harribobs, He's not in my October 1914 AL for 6th Manchesters or any for any other unit, so wonder if he emigrated to Australia. Collar badges aside it's a lovely bit of kit and without a doubt the genuine article and wish I had a Northumberland Fusilier one of equal quality in my collection. Graham.

Harribobs, Can you be more precise as to when Lt Lomax served with the 6th Manchesters, as this would give us clear dates to work from, i.e. when was he first commissioned as a 2nd/Lt? As I'm not a Manchester researcher/collector I can possibly stand corrected on the Sphinx collars with "Egypt" thereon, but as I have stated these differences were done away with post WWI, when Territorial battalions were encouraged to adopt the insignia of their Regular counterparts. Graham.

Harribobs, The collar badge on this tunic is a Manchester Regiment officers pre-1923 wire embroided one and wouldn't have been in metal. Silver metal would probably have been worn by officers with the Scarlet Frock coat and Blue Patrol jacket. The V.B./T.F. other ranks would have worn the same collar badge, on scarlet Parade Dress tunics but in whitemetal. No collar badges were worn on Service Dress by other ranks pre-WWI. Post WWI would have seen Regular Battalion badges being adopted by Territorial Battalions, which marked the end of the distinction between the two. Graham.

The colour "primrose yellow" predominates throughout the history of the Lancashire Fusiliers, and in my library I managed to find a copy of "Customs & Practices of XX The Lancashire Fusiliers", in which this colour is frequently mentioned. I also checked on the facing colour of the 20th Foot, from which the Lancashire Fusiliers are descended and indeed their facing colours were yellow. On "Minden Day" which celebrates the British victory of the 1st August 1759, the Lancashire Fusiliers, as did other regiments who took part, celebrate by wearing roses in their head-dress and in the case of the Lancashire Fusiliers, they wore a combination of a red and yellow rose. The red rose being that of Lancaster. I checked my copy of "British Infantry Uniforms - since 1660", which has a table of facing colours and indeed the facing colour's of yellow, white, blue and green are to be found throughout our Regiments of Foot. For those members from across the water, I also believe that the facing colour of white was also used by the Continental Army with their blue uniforms. As an amateur military historian I do tire of the endless crap, myths, legends I hear about the British Army or the Armed Forces in general and perhaps this site with the help of knowledgeable members could eventually sweep it all away. Graham.

17poundr, Will be on the case shortly and will send e.mail ASAP. Have to walk the dog and have my daughters and wife's tea ready(I'm working nights). Can't really say if Monty served with 3rd Div, but know he served as a junior officer with the Royal Warwickshire Regiment. The soldier in the illustration is I would think a WWII Yank prior to adopting the more familiar steel helmet. Graham.

Grant, Thanks for adding to this post and clearing up as to why QLR wear the capbadge backing. The only bit you got wrong was the hackle of the Lancashire Fusiliers which was infact "primrose yellow", which they wore until amalgamated with the other English Fusilier Regiments in 1968 and then the old Royal Northumberland Fusiliers hackle of red & white was adopted by all battalions. Fusilier hackles were as follows;- Royal Northumberland Fusiliers - White base, red tip. Royal Fusiliers - White. Lancashire Fusiliers - Primrose yellow. Royal Warwickshire Fusiliers - Deep orange base, dark blue tip. This was the last regiment to be created Fusiliers to allow amalgamation in 1968, up until this date they had been Royal Warwickshire Regiment. Royal Welsh Fusiliers - White. Royal Scots Fusiliers - White. Amalgamated with the Highland Light Infantry as the Royal Highland Fusiliers and kept the white hackle. Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers - Grey Royal Irish Fusiliers - Green Royal Munster Fusiliers - Green with white tip. Royal Dublin Fusiliers - Green with blue tip. Going back to the question of facing colours and the use of buff, yellow and white by a lot of line regiments, I believe that I read somewhere that in the 1600's that only base colours were used due to the difficulties in the process of producing colour fast dyes. Greens were also used as was blue. Graham.

Chris, Are you talking about the same "Corps of Guides" created as part of the Technical Reserve in 1910? If it's the same Corps I'm talking about then you may be hard pressed to find any photo's, considering they were civilians and a non-uniformed organisation right up until August 1914. Whether or not they were uniformed after that date I couldn't say for certain or how long they remained a functioning organisation due to changes within the Reserve formations. The Corps which was formed in Northumberland was based upon the Counties Wards, but I have no idea how the remainder of the countries other Guides units were formed. Graham.

Tony, Sorry about that I thought they were from the same photo. I wouldn't worry about the low numbering which you would find being used by Regulars, Special Reservists and Territorials. Numbering is one of my favourite subjects and although there is a guideline, you do have to look at each unit in turn, as it can get complicated. Up to the introduction of new regimental numbers in the 1920's your number was changed whenever you transferred to another unit. If you were in the Territorials you couldn't be transferred without your permission and you didn't take your number with you, even if you went another battalion. In 1917 all Territorials were issued with new six figure numbers. You even had pre-fix numbers which were given a letter or number and / or - , followed by a regimental number. This is usually found among locally raised units of Kitcheners Armies and Territorials from May 1915. Basically the numbers were;- Regular Infantry - 1 to 9999 until 1906 and then it was 1 to 19999. In both cases once the numbers were used up you went back to number 1. Special Reserve - 1 to 9999 and back to 1 on completion. Territorial Force - 1 to 9999 per each battalion and then back to 1 on completion. New six figure numbers issued 1917. Graham.

Gents, Lets get a few facts straight here;- 1 - The QLR were never Fusiliers and do not were a hackle, they wear a yellow diamond behind the badge which is now made of plastic, but was once cloth. The significance currently escapes me. 2 - The Lancashire Fusiliers were eventually amalgamated into the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers 3 - Buff, Yellow and White facings were quite common among line regiments and are not sign of cowardice of any sorts. 4 - The white lanyard of the RA is not a sign of cowardice either and it did actually signify that the wearer in all units in Service Dress that the man was a qualified signaller. Before anyone mentions the Sigs wear a blue lanyard there was no R.Signals until after the Great War. 5 - At the end of the landyard you would find a clasp knife 6 - All R.N. ratings wear a white lanyard too and this signifies the lighted rope/match they carried when manning guns. 7 - Rifle Regiments do not carry Colours, again this is not a sign of cowardice and their battle honours are worn on their badges. Colours were a rallying point for regiments, Rifles were scouts, skirmishers and so on and were free of the line/square or what ever, so never carried them. Please Gentlemen to make this a creditable site I suggest a little more research is used before making statements that are basically b****cks. The books, histories and facts are out there, use them and not barrackroom myths and legends. Graham.

17poundr, Send me an e.mail address and I'll send you the Order of Battle of the 3rd Division from WWI & WWII, and I'll see what books there availible that you may wish to read. Graham. P.S. The second photo attachment was interesting, because the gaiters give him the appearance of being a Yank rather than a Brit.

Tony, Prior to 1921 the East Yorks only had the words "E.YORK" on their shoulder titles and so there seems to be too few letters for it to be them, whereas the Cheshires had the full title "Cheshire" on their shoulder titles. Graham.

Tony, 2nd Bn, Queens was in South Africa from 1899 to 1904 when they returned to England, then went to Gib in 1910. Graham.