Hauptmann

The Valor Medal from that same bar:

I also decided to redo pics... in this case scans of the numbered orders on my two Soviet medal bars. The original posts are here:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7405&hl=

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7408&hl=

Here's the Red Banner:

And then there's a researched MMM. This was one of the first ones Gerd got researched. It was originally awarded to Pavel Yevgenievich Mamykin and Gerd's original post on this in the Researched Orders and Medals thread is at:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=9157

He decided to sell it after his Nephew, thinking he was doing Uncle Gerd a favor, found it and decided to polish it up for him. To me, no major harm done. True, it was a shame to lose the original patina. But considering that the vets did polish their awards for parades and such it's not the end of the world. And it will once again gain a patina over time... perhaps even nicer this time around (fingers crossed!). Perhaps even rainbow toning which is truly some of the most beautiful toning one can find, at least to a numismatist.

Here's Gerd's original pic (used with permission):

And my latest scans:

Hi all,

No idea why I didn't post these way back when as I've had them for quite a while now. Got these from Gerd. First off is an Order of the Badge of Honor I purchased in the GMIC auction. It's missing it's gold CCCP letters but otherwise is a great piece.

He also lists this as being from the 50's. Again I just love the look of this piece along with the one above:

And this type which I believe is much more common... yet another goal for down the road:

Back to dreaming... someday!

Dan

Oh, I nearly forgot. I found a few more examples of badges I like. I especially love the 3d effect and colors on this first one. These I found on Motka's auctions. And of course if anyone has any objections to the use of these I'll be happy to remove them. He says this one dates to the 50's:

Just found out the green one is the small type and the blue is the larger type.

Can't wait till they get here. I don't have many so far but these are, I think, a nice addition to the small set I have so far. I'm just totally hooked on these medals and hope I'm able to expand the collection down the road as well as continuing to learn more about them.

Dan

Hi all,

Well, this threads been quiet for a bit. I've a couple more new additions to pop on. Not in yet... hopefully by the first of this coming week if not sooner. Photos are by Vitaly Kudinov who I've dealt with for quite some time now and who has been most helpful to me.

Been wanting an example of the green and blue ribboned types and finally I've managed it.

Hi Dan

I hope you are fine .

I don't take an interest in the ID tag , so I have thought to sell it for 1 euro +shipping .

Perhaps someone looks for it

many thanks , regards

giorgio

Hi Giorgio,

PM sent.

Dan

Hi Rick,

Well, no idea what anyone else thinks but I for one think it's a beautiful piece! Nice back... I'm probably the only one who hasn't seen such but I kinda like how it's mounted with the pins coming through the back. Very nice work!

A very simple but alluring design. Thanks so much for sharing it with us.

Dan

Hi Chris,

Great shots of the piths in wear. Although some troops didn't like pith helmets once can definitely see they kept a great deal of the sun off once head and probably shoulders as well. Plus they're light weight... of course not much good in a combat situation when protection is the highest order of concern.

Thanks for sharing these,

Dan

Hi all,

I'd like to second the motion! As I've said before these are simply fantastic. So much history... so many faces and places that otherwise might be long forgotten were it not for fantastic collections like these. You are literally preserving what was for those who have not yet been born and I know they will thank you as we do.

Dan

Hi Dan

I haven't the faintest idea . Every offer is welcome. I collect UBoot badges and related so I am not interested in ID disc .

Best regards

giorgio

PS I know very well the " Stalag 17 " (Billy Wilder , William Holden,...)

Hi Giorgio,

Yes, that's another great one. Was actually in some ways the inspiration for Hogan's Heroes.

I too have absolutely no idea what they're worth. Let me see if I can do some digging and get back with you. Right now I'm struggling with a bad stomach flu that hit me last night/early this morning. I've been sleeping most of the day and have only been able to have a few sips of water and now a few of gatorade. Feeling lousy so need to get off of here for now. But will check in again as soon as I can.

Mucho thanks!

Dan

Hi Dan

Many thanks . I received this ID tag from a fiend . Is it interesting for anybody ?

best regards

giorgio

Hi Giorgio,

Glad I could help. As for interest, I would be... if it was from Stalag 13! And yes folks, there was a real Stalag 13. I just missed a document from that stalag about ten years ago on Ebay. Do wish I'd managed to get it as I've always been a tremendous fan of Hogan's Heroes.

Just out of curiosity, what would you be asking for it?

Dan

Yikes! I'll ask my expert what he thinks...

Many thanks! Again I don't hold out much hope but figured I'd check just in case. I only wish I still had the LC as that would have been a nice one to have as well restored. Kept it for years and years but then the opportunity came up to trade it for a bunch of stuff so off it went. Long before moving up here or joining GMIC. If I'd only known then what I know now...

Also sorry for the late reply... as posted in the Lounge we've been off on a bit of an excursion these last few days so I've not been on the computer as much as I normally am.

Thanks again,

Dan

Hi Vic,

Indeed, a great start. Especially love the first two as you know. I pray you'll find the bronze before too long. I also hope to get a set of these at some point down the road but glad you managed these, and especially at the great prices you managed to get them for. Ya did great!!!! Keep up the good work and before long you'll have tons of DDR to be proud of.

Dan

Hello !

What can anyone tell me about this disc ?

Many thanks in advance

giorgio

Hi Giorgio,

I can't put this in concrete... hopefully one of the other members can confirm it. But I believe this is an ID tag of the type issued to POW's in a German prison camp. They'd be assigned a number such as you see on the tag. Like other German "dog tags" they'd be broken in half if the POW died, half was kept for graves registration and the other was left with the body so they'd be able to keep track of who was who. As far as I know it was kept with the body when buried for future identification should that ever have been needed.

Dan

I have another piece... not directly militaria related... but definitely connected to a very historic personality along with her very important husband... WWII related and documented as such. It's a piece I'd also hate to part with but if I could get enough for it alone I'd go that route.

Okay i am sure that you have others intrested what is the OTHER piece put us out of misery what is it .

Dan

Hi Dan,

Welcome to the club!

Many apologies on this... was so intent on dealing with the Blockade set at the time I didn't think about the other other than making that comment. It's a piece I inherited from my father.

Basically it's a silk on silk tapestry that belonged to Madame Chiang Kai-Shek of China... wife of Generalisimo Chiang Kai-Shek, leader of Nationalist China during WWII and then Taiwan for many years after the communist takeover of the main land. Madame Chiang was a famous person in her own right and was very involved in the history of the time. She was the first woman to speak before the U.S. Congress and she and her husband knew and spent time with President and Mrs. Roosevent as well as other top personalities of the time. She only died a few years ago and made it to over 100. There's quite a bit about her out on the web.

Sadly I don't have any pics of it handy... I could do another set but not sure if I can get to it for a bit. It's not huge but it's bigger than the bed on my scanner. I can do digital pics but to be honest they really don't do it justice. I'll ponder it for a bit and see what I can come up with. It's actually so well done that it's really beautiful from the front or the back. Was made early 1900's and belonged to her through the 30's. She was going to have it made into a pillow case but it was seen by a friend of her's who admired it and so she made a gift of it to him. It's documented.

But it's something I don't have a set value on and I'm torn on letting it go... especially as my son Nick loves things oriental. It's a difficult item to value. If not for it's provenance it would be worth a good bit less. But the historical connection makes it more valueable. Just like a tablecloth belonging to Eva "Braun" Hitler would be. But even then there are levels regarding that kind of value. To someone generally interested in WWII it would possibly be of interest... to someone interested in China's history during that period or specifically in General Chiang and his wife or just specifically in her... she being one of three famous Chinese sisters of the period, all with historic connections... well it could be worth that much more. Or to someone who is interested in this type of artwork it would be another price.

Definitely something I'd have to have properly appraised to include a written appraisal which I could not afford at that time... and it would still be tough... at least for a bit.

Anyhow hope that solves the mystery. Again I'll be happy to try and do up some pics and post this at some point if there's anyone who would like to see it.

Thanks,

Dan

That's exactly what I meant. So once the irreproachable service medals came into effect they would apparantly be awarded without fail in 10, 15 and 20 years with orders to follow. One other thing I am not clear about.... did 10/15/20 years service automatically qualify you for these medals or did your service to the armed forces really have to be irreproachable?

Jim

Hi Jim,

Yet another excellent question. Kinda wondered about that myself. But many thanks on what seem excellent answers on my original question. Glad it got a good discussion going. I'm really enjoying this and hope to learn more before all is said and done.

Thanks!

Dan

Hi Dan,

It does look as though my pith did have insignia of some sort on. It?s not all that clear but if you look at the first photo you can see a little tear in the fabric covering just a little bit above where the brim begins. The cut goes right through so a cap badge may have been worn on the front. The only thing is that normally the lugs on the back of a RNZAF cap badge are side to side not top and bottom as would fit in this case so I am not sure what would have been worn on the front of this one. Looking through photos of kiwis wearing this type of headgear they all appear to have been worn without insignia but I guess it was up to the individual as to if he bothered putting a badge on it.

I would like to find a little bit more about the original owner and wrote to our Ministry of Defence here in NZ when I first got it, but they wrote back saying as they had not received any notification of his death they were unable to provide me with any info because of privacy laws.

Cheers

Chris

Hi Chris,

Perhaps you could write to some veterans groups there and see if perhaps someone may know of him. Stranger things have happened. I do hope more info turns up.

On the insignia I'll keep my eye out for similar piths and see if I can find out what would have been worn there. And perhaps one of our fellow members knows more about these and can chime in here. Be great if someone had some pics of them with insignia being worn.

It's very similar to the ones our U.S. forces used for a time in certain theaters. I've seen them with Marine insignia as well as Army and am sure they were probably used by the naval forces and the Army Air Corps and early Air Force as well with their appropriate insignia.

Shoot, some of our postmen here in the states still wear one nearly identical to yours although in plastic. Definitely keeps the sun out.

Dan

Well.... I guess you know where to find it then Dan

Granted that many of today's medals do lack the complexity and beauty of the Soviet era ..... I restrict myself to official government issued Soviet ODMs but hey - if collectors are interested in unofficial or post soviet decorations ... whatever your poison!

Just as long as this Order is clearly outlined as not being an official Soviet Government award I am very happy.... call it what you may as will I

Jim

PS - Just our of curiosity.... how many people out there actually collect these so called "Umalatova Awards" and how many of them are actually buying this as the real Soviet Official Order?

Hi Jim,

PM sent. On how many folks collect them... I don't have any numbers but I know several of our fellow members have Umalatova awards in their collections. I see them for what they are... curiosities of the post Soviet era. I also look at it this way... way back in the day when I was still into TR and I discovered the 57 reissues I expressed an interest in getting some. I was told by all and sundry that they were junk to be avoided. Of course they were comparing them with the actual TR awards and in that battle they were of much less quality by comparison. However, over time they've gone up considerably in value as TR has gone out of sight forcing collectors to look elsewhere... and the 57's seemed to be the next logical alternative. And they now seem to be an excepted area of collecting.

I only wish I'd picked up a ton of them back then as you generally couldn't give them away. Instead I managed to obtain the 1936 1st class Olympic Decoration, a Russian Front medal and a cased German Cross in gold. I may be forgetting a piece but I think that's the bulk of them. And now I've basically been priced out of most of them... at least for the forseeable future. Plus my focus for quite some time has been Soviet and Soviet block.

So I guess I'm trying to put together a decent little collection of the Umalatova's for several reasons, the curiosity factor, hedging my bets like I didn't do with the German 57's, and because I like the design of many of the awards, especially those copied from the original Soviet pieces.

As far as how many are buying them as original Soviet issue pieces... again no idea. I'd assume there will always be some... those who have not purchased the red bible or other suitable reference and who have not attempted to learn all they can about such things before making purchases. But I've seen this in all the hobbies I've ever been involved in. Shoot, I remember back in the day when I started out. I'd studied and read till my eyes bled... but that's still different from actually making purchases. I remember my first big show down in Fort Lauderdale. Granted I'd been to gun shows and such many times growing up but never to a "militaria show". I was like a kid in a candy store... plenty of money burning a hole in my pocket and nothing to hold me back. I've made my mistakes and am sure I'll make more before I go to meet my maker. But every new collector I run into I always try to tell them learn, learn, learn and then learn some more. Read, visit museums, look at other collections whenever possible, join forums like GMIC, use every resource they can get their hands on to learn all they can before spending a ton of money on something that may turn out to be fake or not what they thought they were getting.

But when it comes right down to it the ultimate responsibility lies with each collector to know what they're getting into. If they just go out and buy left and right without ever cracking a book, joining a forum or seeing other collections, going to museums, etc., then they're getting exactly what they're asking for. The resources are definitely out there... they just need to put some effort into finding and using them. When I started into Soviet there were no refs in English... at least that I could find. But I still tried to find out all I could. I even remember being offered an Order of the Red Star shortly after the wall had fallen... I was thrilled. It was beautiful. Deep red enamel... just gorgeous. No idea what the serial number was or any other details as at that point in time I didn't know about such things... wouldn't for years to come. The price then was $350. Even though I loved it I passed. Something told me it was probably way too much. So unless it was some rare variation or a particularly low serial number I probably made the right decision.

My first OPW were 2nd class 85 issues. And I know I paid too much. But again I was flying blind. But no refs so... I did get the color booklet put out by the Leningrad museum on Imperial and Soviet ODM and that helped a great deal. I began to learn. Got a few other basic guides over time. But until I joined GMIC and then managed to get a copy of the Red Bible I was still stumbling around in the dark. I got lucky and didn't make any huge mistakes. But needless to say I feel much better now... and I know I still have a ton to learn.

All we can do is be there and offer our knowledge and expertise as we all do here and hope that those in need will find us, listen and learn.

Well, I did it again didn't I? Another "Gone With The Wind" post. I can only hope I don't bore everyone to death. Kim and Nick always tell me I'm too long winded... but when I'm passionate about something I just can't help myself. And I do dearly love this hobby.

Gotta run for now. Hope one and all had a fun and safe New Years Eve.

Dan