Hauptmann

And if figured since I had the medal bar I might as well get the uniform to go with it...

Flag of the DDR Civil Defense from 1979 to 1990 (prior to that they used the Police flag) (graphic from FOTW: Flags of the World website).

Hi all,

Well, didn't intend for it to happen but seems now I'll have to keep my eye out for Civil Defense items. First I managed to get this bar:

Hi Laurence,

Great collection and very nicely displayed... simple but definitely a pleasure to look at! Would love some shots of the cased awards visible at the bottom of the first pic. Also what is the document in the frame to the left in the first photo? Also are those grass stains on the tunic... or green paint? If grass stains it's possible they could be removed with something like Oxyclean... something that will remove organic stains.

Thanks for sharing!

Dan

As I am sure my previous answer is correct I'll put this question up!

You know, I can hardly think of you going into Easter without a question gnawing away at your heads!!! I just hope this question lasts long enough to see it through Easter

Enjoy!

Jim

WHO AM I???

What was my full maiden name and later, my married name?

When and where was I born and when and where did I die?

What was my rank?

Briefly what is the famous story that would take me to the front lines?

What was I doing when I received my fatal wound and what decoration did I receive for this action?

Hint: I died aged 39, only 7 days after my birthday

Okay, here's the answers to this one:

Mariia Vasilievna Oktiabrskaia (before marriage - Garagulia).

Born in the Crimea on March, 8th of 1905.

She died in Smolensk on March 15, 1944.

Guards Sr. Sergeant.

She married a Soviet Army Officer, Ilia Oktiabrskii (they changed their names when they were married in 1925 to honor the October Revolution) who was later killed in the fighting in Kiev in 1941. She was not told till 1943. When she heard the news she was furious and wanted revenge. She sold all her possessions and offered to pay for a tank on the condition that she could be the driver. She requested this in a letter to Stalin and he granted her request. The tank was named Fighting Girlfriend which was painted on the tank.

She was eventually wounded on January 17, 1944, when, against the orders of the tank commander she refused to remain in the safety of the tank when an anti-tank gunner damaged the tread and she jumped out to help in the repairs. A shell exploded nearby and she was hit in the head by a piece of shrapnel. She was evacuated to Smolensk where she remained in a coma for nearly two months when she died on March 15, 1944.

She was named as a Hero of the Soviet Union on August 2, 1944.

Dan

That is a heck of an array of ribbon bars Dan, which ones came through with the thumbs up??? I knew a local dealer here in Melbourne many years ago who was doing long ribbon bars using original ribbons and devices, and he did a real good job but mucked up their order of precedence etc, the First World War ribbons lose me completely too! Your Luftwaffe singles and doubles with the long service ribbons look ok to me! The Schiffer book on ribbon bars was going to be on my purchase list until I heard that most of the ribbons in that book were not good either, it seems ribbon bars are a bit of a nightmare!

Bob

Hi Bob,

Yeah, it's a jungle for sure. Back when I got these no one really knew much, except probably for the Rick twins. And mostly folks like me would get them to dress up a uniform. I mean after years of watching all the movies and TV series on WWII we all "knew" that every German soldier from a Field Marshal to a Private had a knights cross and all the iron crosses and anything else you could think of and they just had to have a huge "Where Eagles Dare" ribbon bar to match!

Then, twenty to twenty-five years later I get on GMIC and "grow up" and learn just how much BS all that was re: ribbon bars. Of course I'd long ago learned the falsity of the other theory and that most of them had perhaps one or two awards or a bit more had they seen combat.

I originally did the best photos of these that I could and showed them to Rick (Research) on the side as to be honest if they turned out to be bad I would have been terribly embarrassed. Thankfully I got most of these for dirt. I don't think I ever paid more than like $7 or thereabouts for the longest one. Many were just given to me over the years. Funny thing was that due to their condition Rick thought perhaps they'd all come from one source at one time. But they were literally from all over the country and at all different times.

And the ultimate shame is that even if I wanted to sell them off, I could put them on Ebay and get tons for them. But I won't because then they just get spread back out there and other newbie collectors will get taken for a ride. I figure I've got dirt in them and so I just keep them in the collection and hopefully they'll just get passed down with the knowledge of which are good and which are not.

I plan to do proper scans of each bar at some point, hopefully in the near future. But that's going to be very time consuming so I have to get a block of a couple of days where I have nothing else to do and then I'll jump in. Then hopefully if one or both of the Rick's have time they can pop on now and then and give opinions on each and why each is good or bad, what is bad about them, etc. I just finally figured that if, by doing this it will benefit even one other collector then it's worth it.

So keep your eyes peeled as before too long you can come back and see good closeups and know which are which.

Thanks again and I hope you and your's are having a great holiday weekend.

Dan

Last week I was lucky enough to come across a dress tunic to the Munkasor. The tunic belongs to a fairly high ranking member. The term "rank" does not really apply to the Munkasor structure. The collar tabs don't indicate rank in a military sense of the word. They indicate assignment positions. There are two distinct assignment structures that I still need to do some work on before I fully understand them. There is an assignment structure for what appears to be a Headquarters Group and another assignment structure for those in the field or the rest of the country. Without an organization chart to go by I can not be sure just how this all comes together.

The collar tabs on this tunic indicate the previous owner was in a group called "MOP TORZS" in the assignement Group not at a headquarters. Assignment positions range from T1 down to T12 with this collar tab indicating a level of T3.

The Munkasor badge is of the early stamped type and numbered. Next to that is a Kivalo Munkasor badge. The ribbon bars is for, from the viewers left to right reads:

Labour Merit Medal, Merit Medal for Socialist Labour, then a 20 year service medal.

The crest on the lower left sleeve indicates the wearer was associated with the Munkasor National Men's Chorus. The shirt and tie are not authentic but are the correct colur for this uniform.

Regards,

Gordon

Hi Gordon,

That's a beautiful tunic!!!! Great display! Just out of curiosity, are these like exceptionally rare? Would love to have one eventually but want to know if it's within the ability of mere mortals to obtain or just something that comes up once in a blue moon.

Mucho thanks and may you and Charles continue to find tons and tons of really great goodies as long as you're both over there... and beyond!

Dan

Here is the 5 year "itch" pin. This was a system instiuted before they started handing out the Munkasor Medal - but it seems that later this became more of a "good work" medal as they later qualified for the Armed Forces Service Medals soon after that. Here is a cased one that I used to own and now resides with a fellow collector.

Hi Charles,

She's safe and sound and says to say hi to her daddy! She appreciates getting the extra press too!

Dan

Hi Roeland,

Wow! Sorry you had to go through all that. It's amazing how strange some folks can be. Get uptight for no reason at all.

Could you post his info so others can avoid him in future? Sounds as if he's not the type of seller any of us would like to deal with.

Many thanks!

Dan

Congrats Dan on your number 8 ranking and you 2500 post

Order of Victory

Many thanks my friend!!!! Again when I noticed I was shocked. I knew I'd gone over the 2,000 mark not that long ago but then blam... over 2,500! Can't wait to do the next 2,500!

Dan

Nice cross, Hauptman!

Still a version from the age of Victor Emanuel.

But this is indeed very green, while the other is faded blue...

I don't think that the paint in such a relatively short time could go from green to blue-ish....

But it might still be possible, then the crown could denote some extra years or a mention of bravery what ever.

Kind regards,

Jacky

Hi Jacky,

Actually... it's a set of pics I pulled off of Ebay. Not actually my cross... wish it was as it's is indeed a nice one. Sorry I didn't clarify on that point.

Anyhow I'm just not sure on those particular ribbons. I've tried all my references on awards and can't find that one. But it definitely looks like those crowns are the same as shown in my Rosignolli reference on Italian Orders. Hopefully someone will come up with it.

Dan

Possibly this one if it is indeed a green white green ribbon?

Dan

The equally striped faded green/white with crown device/faded green is Military Long Service Cross. Not sure what the device denotes.

Hi Rick,

Still not sure of the award but here is a quote on the crowns from Ribbons Of Orders, Decorations And Medals by Guido Rosignoli:

"Small metal crowns are worn attached to the service ribbon in order to identify the class of an order; three, two and one gold crowns are worn by the three top classes respectively, a silver crown identifies the Officer while the Knight wears the plain ribbon"

I originally thought the ribbons were blue white blue... with the one faded grey white gray. But I can't find any to match any of those or a faded green white green either. But the crown devices match those pictured in his book.

Dan

Hi Kevin,

Okay... here we go:

Three ribbon bar on the lower left of the pic which is upside down:

Cross of War

Not sure????

Medal for the Albanian Campaign

I went on the assumption that these have lightened a bit with age, being in the sun, etc.

The big blue and white section of ribbon is for the Cross of War (Croce di Guerra).

The one just above that is for the medal for the War of Independence. I can only assume the star means there was one or more additional awards of the medal.

Three ribbon bar below the large Cross of War ribbon:

Cross of War

Spanish Campaign 3rd type

Volunteer in Spain 1st type

Then up to the top right hand three ribbon bar:

Cross of War and Military Valor (the latter is signified by the sword device on the ribbon)

Cross of War

War medal (1915-1918) (Hard to see but if it's green/white/red repeated (total 6 times) then that should be it, with multiple awards I'd assume due to the stars.)

Bar on cloth backing:

First Row:

Not sure????

Italo Turkish War (1911) medal

Not sure????

Second Row:

Medal of Italian Unity

Campaign in Spain 3rd Type

Volunteer in Spain 2nd Type

Third Row:

Italian Republic - Long Service (Officer or NCO) in the Public Security Police (Not sure on this one... closest I can come to an Italian ribbon with 9 red stripes on a white background.

The embroidered gold star is, I believe, simply a collar device worn by Italian Army Officers.

I hope I at least got the majority of this right.

Hope it helps.

Dan

Hallo Gents,

thought I would share this, my latest win on Ebay:

I am familiar with some but not all the ribbons, the three large pieces, no idea at all, any suggestions please.

While this group set me back a staggering 5 Euro 50 cents, the seller is looking for 20 Euro to post from Germany to Romania

I sent a message suggesting they check out the prices on the Deutschepost.de web-site, I think sent Registered it should not be more than 5-7 euro.

If and when it gets here I will post more detailed pictures.

Kevin in Deva

Hi Kevin,

Right off the bat those three large pieces... I believe they're sleeve rank insignia for a Sub-Lieutenant in the Italian Royal Navy during WWII. Equivalent of a 2nd Lt. in their Army.

I'll see what I can come up with on the ribbons.

Dan

Well if the term Cavalier does apply, there were a total of 6557 of them...

Just thought I'd add that little bit of info for the fun of it.

JC

Hi JC,

I'll second Doc on that... many thanks for the total. Just out of curiosity where did you get your info? I've not been able to find very much information on Bulgarian awards so far... at least not in English.

Dan

Very nice early medal Dan

Many thanks my friend! Definitely not mint condition but it's been there and done that for sure! One of those things that "if only they could talk, the tales they could tell."

Dan

Dan,

I agree with Grant. You did not receive the badge pictured in the auction. There is no doubt about that. The pins at the bottom are for the hanger for indicating additional awards of this item.

Regards,

Gordon

Hi Gordon,

Again I'm not absolutely positive that it's not just a case of the clear coat having come off with the enamel. This seller doesn't seem to deal in militaria items that much judging by their listing. And there was a tag attached to the badge when I got it saying basically that it was an East German badge and the original price was $28 and on the reverse it had been lowered to $25 which I'd definitely call wishful thinking! I think it's an antique shop and that they really don't have a clue on this sort of thing. But I'll be interested to hear back from them as to what happened here. Perhaps they'll offer a partial refund but I'm not holding my breath. As it is I left them a good feedback and have yet to receive one in return. Says he/she works a day job so to be patient with communications... assuming that means feedback as well.

We'll see what happens.

Thanks!

Dan

that NVA bester badge is nasty i would be sending that back Dan !

The Kampfgruppe bester badge is nice and the silver medal on the medal bar looks to have some nice patina there .

Those pins on the bottom of the Army bester badge are for the numbered hangers that go on it i think

Hi Grant,

I do basically agree on the Bester... however I only paid $4.95 "but it now" with $2.50 shipping. Unless the seller either just sends me another one or pays for shipping back, etc., it's hardly worth it to send it back to get another one.

And I'm actually thinking it may be the same that perhaps the clear coat came off with the enamel and they either didn't realize it or it just got thrown away or something. So they might not even have another. I've written the seller (kimberh2006 out of Lake in the Hills, IL, United States... feedback of 1580 with only 5 negatives so not bad at all.) in the hopes this can be explained. Will let you know what if anything comes of it.

And many thanks on the explanation of the pins. I should have remembered that but just wasn't thinking clearly.

Many thanks on the kampfgruppe badge and the medal bar.

Dan

Another nice one Grant... keep em' coming!!!!

Dan

Dear Dan,

many thanks for checking our Yugo badges .

Maybe as Andrew "Mondvor" - he is the expert with Soviet Awards at GMIC ?

That badge looks somehow "different".

Best regards

Christian

Hi Christian,

No problem on the Yugo badges... really like them. Wish they weren't so rare and expensive... but always nice to look.

I may have to give him a nudge and see if he'll pop over and take a look. Re: your other post I'd not even noticed the directions the guns were pointing till you mentioned it. Thanks for pointing that out! I mean, if it's a variation it's a neat one. But if it's a fake I'd definitely want to know that too. I'm of course still hoping for the former but I'm prepared for the latter. I figure for what I paid it was less than I'd expected to put out for a gold fleet badge... so as far as I'm concerned I got the rest for free!

Well, here's hoping it turns out well but either way at least it's better to know.

Thanks again!

Dan

Hi Christian,

Many thanks! A bit rich for my blood right now but I sure do like them!

Dan

Hi Doc,

I've also got a full set of these... at least once the 1st and 2nd class arrive from Bulgaria. When I got mine about three years ago I think I paid something like $12 to $15 for it. It was on Ebay and no one else bid so I got it for the minimum. I've wanted to complete them ever since. But at that time and for the longest time since they actually tended to be pricey. They ran around $40 to $75 each and sets ran $100 and up easy. But for some reason the prices came down in the last year or so and you can now find them, especially through Bulgarian sellers for much cheaper prices.

Try: boev60 on Ebay. He's out of Pazardjik, Bulgaria. He generally puts up complete sets for $38.00 or best offer. He ships for $6 for registered mail which is how mine are coming.

My question on these... were holders of all three classes known as Cavaliers as they were with the Order of Labor Glory in the Soviet Union? And if so did they also have similar benefits that came along with the honor?

Thanks,

Oh, I just realized... this is my 2,500th post! All since last April!!!! I never woulda' thunk it!

Dan

Hi Christian,

Very nice badges indeed! I especially like the newer type from the 70's as it's so colorful. About what do those run out of curiosity?

Very interesting thread. Hope it continues for some time... I for one would love to see more examples.

Dan

Hallo Dan, please see:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=10851

Reading through it seems opinion is that single core were mainly used, but I have seen two piece as well.

Kevin in Deva

Hi Kevin,

Many thanks! Again I'd never heard of that and it's very interesting. I did know that some would "rattle" in their frames but I always felt this was just something that happened over time with wear and tear and didn't know it was due to a duel core being used. See... Ve German's vas vay ahed of our time! Ve had Duel Cores before anyvun else!!!!

Seriously though, it was great reading through that thread and seeing the great pics there.

Thanks for sharing it with me/us.

Dan

Dear Dan,

there are so many variations of the Soviet sub badge, that only an expert can tell if it's a fake or not.

The enamel of the red star is not so bad, it's quite fine. The guns of the sub are pointing in a strange direction.

I like more the other Soviet Navy badges at your thread .

I started now a thread about the rare YU sub badges: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=16805 .

Best regards

Christian

Hi Christian,

Many thanks! As far as if the one is good or a variation or what I'm perhaps some of the others who may have specialized in this area will chime in and give their opinions. It's hard to describe but I'm sure you've felt it before... when you see a piece and something just doesn't seem "right". It may be a perfectly legit badge... just a variation or type I've never seen before. I do hope that's the case. But I'd like to be sure one way or the other. I basically have nothing in it. I got three of them... the gold fleet badge, another silver ship badge which I'm giving to Vic (Order of Victory) and this one. I'd originally intended to send that extra silver sub badge to Vic as well but I've told him I'll get him another as I definitely don't want to send him a fake for his collection, and if a variation I do collect those when I can. But I promised to make it up to him and I'm sending him some other pieces which I'm hoping make up for it in some small way. I've basically agonized over it all day but feel this is the way to go.

I'll have to check out your thread on the Yugo badges as well. Sounds very interesting.

Dan