Christian Zulus

Dear Doc, nice piece - looks impressive and has a excellent design. Best regards Christian

Dear Ed, many thanks for your scans . So, in picture 4 we can see, that the Soviets had been even sloppy in mounting the ORBs in the right way . Best regards Christian

Material from the Russian archives Gentlemen, does anyone have access to the Russian archives to get some insight into Sergeant Gnitienko's Awards Record Card? Many thanks in advance . Best regards Christian Zulus

ORBs #X: Regulations vs. reality Gentlemen, I experienced, that almost NO recipient of multiple ORB got his awards according to the official regulations - ORB, ORB #2, ORB #3, etc. Specially for real GPW-battle-ORBs this practice might be somehow a "rule", maybe not so for "Long-Service-ORBs" . The numbered ORBs, I have in my modest collection - ORB #2 (19.404, T3/V4 & ORB #3 (8.426, T4) - are long service awards (#2 for sure "20-years-of-service", belongs to the group of airforce Major Baranovsky and the single #3 has to be for 99% a long service award). If you look at my thread showing Maj. General Skuba, who received 4 ORBs http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11895 , you will see at the photograph: ORB - ORB - ORB #3 - ORB. Or if you have a look at Dave's ("NavyFCO") fantastic collector's website, you will find at his large ORB-section not one ORB-group with all ORBs according to the regulations. I want to point at the obvious fact, that the Soviet adminstration was - even or specially during the GPW - rather "sloppy" working according to the regulations of the Supreme Soviet. Maybe they thought: An ORB is an ORB, so what matters the number. Or maybe there was supply shortfall of numberd ORBs? Maybe we could bring some light into the process, how the system - Mint & Supreme Soviet & Military Staffs - worked. Why are there exact regulations for conferring orders, if the staffs, the adminstration and the Mint don't care about them? Marshall Kozhedub hat the legal right to receive an ORB #7, but he got at the end an ordinary ORB with s/n. XXX.XXX. Why was it sooooo difficult, if someone got a "wrong" order, to get it exchanged for the right one - Glory-Cavaliers had to wait for decades to get there 2nd Glory 2cl exchanged to the deserved Glory 1cl. Sloppy adminstration in terms of orders & medals in the Soviet Union ? Best regards Christian Zulus

ORB #8 Dear Simon, many thanks for the new information, that Air Chief Marshal Ivan Pstygo should have got a ORB #8. Do you have any further informations about Ivan Pstygo? He had been a GPW-veteran of the Soviet Airforce and criticized Stalin's military policy in his memoirs. Are there any photographs showing comrade Pstygo with his 8 ORBs? Best regards Christian

Dear Wild Card, many thanks for the hint. Dimitri offers some nice photographs and (not so important) documents for a very fair price. It seems to me, that the heirs of Marshal Kozhedub started to bring some material at the market. Maybe Igor or Dimitri will offer the complete collection of Kozhedub's awards & decorations and maybe Putin might sell Kozhedub's "White Number 27" LA-7 . Best regards Christian

Lieber Gerd, no, don't do it - I am a friend of humour . Your scans represent a great work of art. Herzliche Gr??e Christian

Dear Christophe, that english book about the French Eagles is worth every EURO: Perfect and comprehensive documentation about everything, what had to do with the regiment, every member is listed, with detailed informations about awards, etc. and pilot's remarks about flying the fabulous YAK-fighters (the YAK-3 had been - besides the LA-7 - the most superiour piston-engined fighter in WW II). Best regards Christian

Dear Ed, maybe Igor knows where his medals are . At least he offers Kozhedub's large Marshal-Star-Document + a lot of other documents & photographs at his website. The market value of Kozhedub's complete orders & medals - Marshal Star, 3x HSU, 7x ORB, etc. - would be interesting . Best regards Christian

ORB #7: The Kozhedub-Case Gentlemen, many thanks for your interest in discussing the aspect of "ORB #6 +" . The Kozhedub-Case should be rather well documented, I assume. He was the greatest fighter ace (outside Germany) of all times in history, a genius and a true artist in the skies. He even shot down one german ME 262 jet fighter with his LA-7. He was an very important person in Soviet History (from GPW till 1991) and promoted to the rank of a Marshal. What I want to say is, that Marshal (at the time he got his seventh ORB: Col. General) Kozhedub was not a swine farmer, head of a collective farm, who produced 250 pigs over the plan and should have received his 2nd HSL with "II" at the rv., but got only another HSL without the "II" and the very low s/n. at the rv. Kozhedub had some "weight" in the Soviet adminstration. My theory: Maybe the ORBs #7 existed in the Soviet Union in the late 1960s only on the paper and at the records & archives. Maybe we might find in the records, that Kozhedub received a ORB #7 with the s/n. X, but actually he got an ordinary ORB with the s/n. XXX.XXX, as we see it at the photograph and as it should be listed in his orders booklet . The regulations of the ORB she very clearly, that the awardees have to receive their ORBs with subsequent numbers: ORB, ORB #2, ORB #3, ..... But what to do, when the Mint can not deliver an ORB #7? My experience as a historian focussed at Soviet history is, that the Soviet adminstration was already in the late 1960s in a mass and the whole country in decline. So I might be possible, that the official records show a perfect socialistic world - the generals got their ORBs #7 & #8 with the one-digit-s/n. -, but in reality everybody got only a simple ORB with a XXX.XXX s/n. Maybe the Mint argued, that it doesen't make sense to produce new tools for a handful of new ORBs for old generals? Maybe they had been too lazy? Maybe they had their new tools in the 1970s or 1980s for producing ORBs #7, #8 and #9 (?) and the Supreme Soviet had been too lazy to exchange the awards for Kozhedub & Co.? My speculations . I have a rather similar case of my theory - records vs. orders booklet & real medal - in my modest collection: The case of Sergeant Gnitienko's Glory-Trio, who got Glory 1cl with s/n. 1965 (cavaliers booklet + 3 orders are without the slightest doubt 100% genuine), but the archives say, that he received Glory 1cl with s/n. 3646. I documented the Gnitienko-Case (+ a rather fruitful discussion) in this thread: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5536 Gentlemen, does anyone have access to the archives concerning Kozhedub's last ORB? Has anyone similar experiences with genuine high-grade sets, where the archives in Moscow note differnt s/n.? Best regards Christian Zulus

Dear Christophe, there is a link to the above mentioned book in french language: http://www.aerostories.org/~aerobiblio/article1136.html and in english language (with commentaries): http://www.amazon.co.uk/French-Eagles-Sovi...n/dp/0750940743 Best regards Christian

Dear Jim, sorry, my mistake . I put my commentaries to a new thread and "cleaned" also my "Labor Glory 1cl" reply. Best regards Christian

Gentlemen, For years there is a discussion among the collectors community and their experts, wether ORBs #7 & #8 had been issued or not. There is even some evidence (discussion in the "other" Soviet-Award-Forum some time ago), that the tools for for ORB #9 already exist at the Russian Mint (Monetny Dwor), but the ORB #9 had been never issued during CCCP-times and that the Russian Mint produced a series of - more or less - "genuine" - ORBs #9 for the collectors market - to earn some extra money to their small salleries? BTW: The activities at the Russian Mint might be quite interesting . At another thread at this forum http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11738 I asked, if some of our members have any informations about the Russian Mint, concerning the production of orders and medals. ORB #7 & #8 are mentioned (but no photographs!) at the PMD-Bible on page 82 and at Herfurth's (the expert, who has written the foreword of the PMD-Bible) small catalogue, 4th edition, on page 63 with photographs of ORB #7 & #8 on page 62. On the other side Dietrich Herfurth told to me, that he photographed ORB #7 & #8 from a collection located in Germany and that he is not sure, if the two pieces were genuine or well made fakes. In Dietrich Herfurth's first comprehensive book of the year 1987 (years before the market for Soviet awards began to exist!) published in the GDR (DDR) - "Milit?rische Auszeichungen der UdSSR", Milit?rverlag der Deutschen Demokratischen Republik (VEB), Berlin (East) 1987 - you will find on page 90 some informations about ORB #7: "The first, who received the Order of the Red Banner #7, was the Major General of the VVS M. I. Burtzev. He received in 1967 the Order #7 with the s/n. 1 .... Among the other recipients of the Order of the Red Banner #7 were Marshall of the VVS I. I. Pstygo, Colonel General of the Armoured Troops K. G. Kozhanov as the Colonel Generals of the VVS S. D. Gorelov and I. I. Kozhedub." At the "other" forum for Soviet awards it is stated for years, that "NO RED BANNERS EXIST PAST 6TH AWARD." Did Soviet's fighter-ace-no.-1 Marshal Kozhedub receive instead a prestigeous ORB #7 a blank and ordinary ORB? Are there reasonable arguments, why the Soviet Union - during the first years of the Brezhnev-Era! - should not have allowed the Mint to modify some tools for the production of ORB #7. Comrade Brezhnev was sooooo proud about fine orders . Forgers can do it, why not the official Mint? At the website of a very well known US-dealer I found the attached photograph of Kozhedub from the late 1970s, showing all his seven ORBs, but the number 7 is a blank and ordinary ORB and not a ORB #7! So Marshal Kozhedub never received a ORB #7, but another ORB. Gentlemen, does anyone have further informations about the existence - or non-exisence - of genuine ORBs #7 & #8? Best regards Christian Zulus [attachmentid=57879]

4 foreign HSU-recipients, who really deserved their "Gold Star" Gentlemen, to get away from the "Honecker-Birthday-HSUs", a great example of recipients, who really deserved their Gold Stars: The fighter aces of the FRENCH "Normandie-Niemen" squadron, who was fighting within the lines of the Red Army: - Capitaine Marcel Albert - Capitaine Roland de La Poype - Lieutenant Jacques Andr? (post.) - Lieutenant Marcel Lef?vre (post.) 2005 there had been a great book published about the history of the squadron: John D. Clarke, "French Eagles - Soviet Heroes", Sutton Publishing 2005. Best regards Christian Zulus

Gentlemen, I have moved my ORB #7 & #8 commentaries to a new thread: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=12109 Best regards Christian Zulus

Gentlemen, I have moved my ORB #7 & #8 commentaries to a new thread: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=12109 Best regards Christian Zulus

General Skuba's position in the Soviet Army in 1950 Thanks to Andrew (member: MONDVOR) - he translated Skuba's position in his ID-booklet page 4 & 5 - here is the Maj.-Gen. position in the Soviet Army in 1950: "The commander of armored and mechanized troops of the 4th Army" The 4th Army was established in august 1939, took part at the invasion of Poland 1939, major parts of the 4th Army had been destroyed at the battle for Minsk in summer 1941, then fighting at the Wolochov-Front, dissolved in november 1943 and re-established in january 1944. From that time till august 1945 the 4th army was deployed in the Iran (due to the Soviet-Iran treaty of 1921). Till some time over the end of the "Soviet Empire" the 4th Army was deployed in Azerbaijan (bordering to Iran), where the Russian withdrew the 4th Army in may 1993. Commanders of the 4th Army had been: V. A. Chuikov (1939), A. A. Korobkov, L. M. Sandalov, W. F. Jakovlev, K. A. Merezkov (1941), P. A. Ivanov, P. I. Ljapin, N. I. Gussev and I. G. Sovjetnikov (list ends with the year 1986). Gentlemen, does anyone have an idea, what the market value of Gen. Skuba's leatherbound ID-booklet might be? Best regards Christian Zulus

Gentlemen, you are right: I had a closer look at the scans and it definitely looks like "wear and tear". Best regards Christian

You will find that Labour's Glory 1cl with booklet at the website of a well known dealer in Germany for EUR 1.375,-. He also offers a Red Banner #5 for EUR 950,- and a Red Banner #6 for EUR 1.500,-. Unbelievable prices - if the pieces would be genuine . Best regards Christian

Dear "Moore ...", there is a certain lack of detail at the av & rv of the medal and the ring is soldered rather crudly. Might be a casted fake . Best regards Christian

Erich Honecker: Hero of the Soviet Union The HSU as a birthday-present for Erich Honecker , that fact really devalues the HSU. Thank god, that such things didn't happen with the Order of Glory 1st cl . Best regards Christian Zulus P.S.: Richard Sorge had the CCCP-citizenship, but was regarded by the german community in Tokio as a true german citizen. Otherwise he would have never got the informations Stalin needed so badly.

Dear Ed, the GDR (DDR) was established by german communists coming from Moscow: "Gruppe Ulbricht" & Co. Best regards Christian

Dear Order of Victory, you were right: There had been almost no genuine anti-Nazi-partisans inside Germany. Most of them were fighting in the lines of the Red Army partisans or doing propaganda. Some were fighting in the armies of the Western Allies. Best regards Christian

Lieutenant Vladimir Gelfand - his book [attachmentid=57622]

Lieutenant Vladimir Gelfand - an example for our case Gentlemen, the case of Lieutenant Vladimir Gelfand is a very ident case: He participated at the "Berlin-Operation", was a clever (jewish) guy, but somehow "mobbed" and never received any (real) battle award. Comrade Gelfand stayed in Berlin from 1945 to 1946 and received his Red Star 1945 and hat to fight for getting his "Victory over Germany"-Medal. This photograph shows him in Berlin 1946 with his german girl friend wearing the Red Star + the Victory-Medal. He wrote a brilliant book with the title "Germany Diary - 1945 to 1946, memoirs of a Red Army soldier", which was published 1995 in Berlin by the renowed "Aufbau-Verlag". Sorry, it was only published in german language, neither in russian, nor in english . Best regards Christian Zulus [attachmentid=57616]