Christian Zulus

Dear Mr. "slava1stclass", many thanks for the precise informations . At least the order, Marshall Zhukov received, is an extraordinary high British Decoration. As citizens of the UK or the Commenwealth, the 4 generals would have been entitled to wear the title "Sir" in front of their names. So they only had the right to put the K.B.E., etc. after their name, as the Austrian pianist Alfred Brendl . You can see that at the Wiki-entry of Zhukov: Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov, GCB - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Zhukov Best regards Christian

Maybe , but Leopold Trepper had been till 1955 in NKVD-prison. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Orchestra_%28spy%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_Trepper At least in the GDR they had been heros. Best regards Christian

Our comrades just received their UK-Awards From Wikipedia: FIELD MARSHAL MONTGOMERY DECORATES RUSSIAN GENERALS AT THE BRANDENBURG GATE IN BERLIN, GERMANY, 12 JULY 1945. The Deputy Supreme Commander in Chief of the Red Army, Marshal G Zhukov, the Commander of the 21st Army Group, Field Marshal Sir Bernard Montgomery, Marshal Sokolovsky and General K Rokossovsky of the Red Army leave the Brandenburg Gate after the ceremony. Best regards Christian

Aldrich & Rosario Ames ? Double agents as a married couple: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldrich_Ames Best regards Christian

Double Agents - Wiki-Link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_agent Best regards Christian

Dear Christophe, many thanks for your further notes . But that "awards given in official circumstances, by high personalities of both sides" I can not believe . They got their CCCP & US Awards in a public ceremony ? Another question to you: Did our two double agents had any personal relationship to each other? Best regards Christian

Dear Wild Card, these to Glory are extremly rare - so the hammer price doesn't disturb me so much. The other results (incl. 15 % buyer's fee) of that auction concerning Soviet Awards correspond almost 1:1 with the prices, Igor asks at his website, but they had been - as you noted - created by the bidders . Only in the case of that RB #2 r.i. there is a hughe gap in favour for Igor: Auction result is USD 6325,- and at Igor's website you can get a similar RB #2 r.i. for only USD 1750,-. The auction results are rather high for an early HSU - USD 19550,- and for a converted Kutuzov 2cl on a hanger - USD 57500,-. N.Y.-auction is in the usual trend for Soviet Awards for several years: Very rare items increase very fast in their market value. Best regards Christian

Dear "Wild Card", "country of freedom & democracy" is like "god's own country" a well known synonym for the USA. No idea, which US-President introduced that term . Best regards Christian

Dear Christophe, brilliant question - and difficult . But the term "spy" is too unprecise. Who is a "spy"? Is President Putin a spy, who worked for the KGB in the GDR and received his Soviet long service awards and might have also got some US-Awards as a President of the RF ? The fact is, that all KGB- or GRU-officers, who changed the front and defected to the USA had all their long service awards (at least) from the CCCP and usually received at least one award from the USA. So, there might be more, than two persons, who received both - SU & US awards - as spies ? Are the top-generals of the former KGB or GRU, who received their Lenins, RBs, etc. from the CCCP and might have got some US-Awards after 1991, "spies" ? After 1991 a rather large number of former CCCP-Generals (now RF-Generals) got medals or orders from NATO-countries. Typical awards from the CCCP for spies had been usually a RS and in special cases a RB - also FoN or Octoberrevolution had been possible. But Lenin or HSU had been very rare. Only two German spies got the HSU: Sorge & Mielke (head of the GDR-MfS and more or less a "Birthday-HSU"). I.e.: Here you find a list of all CCCP-Awards Misha Wolf, the famous "spy-chief" of the GDR, received: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13550 And: A spy located in a NATO-country never got his award for taking home. At the Soviet Embassy or at a "save flat" there had been a small cermony, where the spy had been awarded with the order, but neither the decoration, nor the document or the OK had been handed out to the spy . So, please: What is a "spy" ? Best regards Christian

The Russian "New Middle Class" as new collectors in our community Dear Bob, these are wise words . The point is, that we should motivate these new Russian collectors of the (rather rich & very well educated) "New Middle Class" to participate at our forum at GMIC, to share their collections with us and to share their results of research. Research is for our fellow collector in Moscow, St. Petersburg or Kiev much easier (and cheaper), than for us in Europe or the USA. They have their collectors platforms in the Russian www - in Russian language -, but all of them speak rather well English. It might be a task for our Russian speaking GMIC-members to invit the most active of these collectors to GMIC . Some of them already appeared at GMIC . But a sad point remains: A "St. Andrew's Order" purchased for about USD 600k from one of the (really) "New Rich" will disappear for generations, I assume. The same might be true for high-end groups including several Suvorovs, Kutuzovs, HSU, etc., who sell in the 2 to 3 digit USD-k-range . Soviet Awards are traded in an international market. Soviet Awards are researched by a truly international community. We have to aim, that GMIC gets even more international - and research (also of early Labour Awards!) should be the top-aim of our community . Best regards Christian P.S.: The fixing of prices for the items is a result of the market - supply & demand. Igor is not a nasty guy, due to the fact he asks (at the first glimpse) rather high prices - he only brings supply & demand together .

Manifesto - French version Dear Christophe, for you and Bryan, etc. the Manifesto in the French translation: http://www.marxists.org/francais/marx/work...mfe18470000.htm It is an important (small) book of German philosophy and specially important to the collectors community of Soviet Awards, because the last words of the "Manifesto" you will find at some of the most important orders of the CCCR . Best regards Christian BTW: Your appreciated question ?

Manifesto Gentlemen, as post No. 800 here is the full english translation of the Manifesto written by Marx/Engels in 1848: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works...festo/index.htm Best regards Christian

Socialism vs. Reality Gentlemen, the owner of GMIC is citizen of the UK. So the UK-laws apply to our forum. So according to UK-laws the "quiz" is the intellectual property of Christophe, despite the scientific fact, that property is theft! The fact is, that the recent UK is NOT the former CCCP - maybe the UK will convert to the first true Socialist socitey in Europe . BTW: 26 years ago, I wrote an article in an Austrian political magazine about the (very) left wing of the British Labour Party after a meeting with their politicians in London . "Ein Gespenst geht um in Europa - das Gespenst des Kommunismus. Alle M?chte des alten Europa haben sich zu einer heiligen Hetzjagd gegen dies Gespenst verb?ndet, der Papst und der Zar, Metternich und Guizot, franz?sische Radikale und deutsche Polizisten. Wo ist die Oppositionspartei, die nicht von ihren regierenden Gegnern als kommunistisch verschrien worden w?re, wo die Oppositionspartei, die den fortgeschritteneren Oppositionsleuten sowohl wie ihren reaktion?ren Gegnern den brandmarkenden Vorwurf des Kommunismus nicht zur?ckgeschleudert h?tte? Zweierlei geht aus dieser Tatsache hervor. Der Kommunismus wird bereits von allen europ?ischen M?chten als eine Macht anerkannt. Es ist hohe Zeit, da? die Kommunisten ihre Anschauungsweise, ihre Zwecke, ihre Tendenzen vor der ganzen Welt offen darlegen und dem M?rchen vom Gespenst des Kommunismus ein Manifest der Partei selbst entgegenstellen." (Karl Marx / Friedrich Engels - 1848) Best regards Christian

Dear Christophe, but it is your intellectual property . Best regards Christian

Dear Maxim, many thanks for that important link Some more links to Russian platforms: http://sammler.ru/index.php?act=SC&c=3 http://auction-su.com/categories.php?paren...mp;show=subcats Best regards Christian

Through the Roof ? Dear Mr. "slava1stclass", I think, that you constructed the roof for a Glory 1cl rather low . I assume, that the "roof" for a Glory 1cl might be (2007/08) about USD 15k. The quality of Igor's Glory 1cl is rather moderate, but still 8/10. Please have a look at Igor's Glory 1cl and mine one http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5536 . Quality is very important at the Russian market, as Dave noted at several threads. So, what is your "price corridor" for a Glory 1cl in the condition 10/10 ? Best regards Christian Igor's Glory 1cl s/n. 1561 Christian's Glory 1cl s/n. 1965

Dear Dave, if you would have access to a Glory 1cl located in the "country of freedom & democracy" in the condition 8/10 for about USD 4000,- (or even less), you can make some profit by selling the medal to St. Petersburg or Moscow . Igor sells his stock . Best regards Christian

Dear Ed, you are right at one point, but a "Glory 1cl" is not an item for the "New Rich", who invests (several hundreds of USD 1k) in Suvorov 1cl, etc., etc. or high-end Russian Imperial Orders, but an item for the "New Middle Class" in Russia. This "New Middle Class" in Russia - as in other Eastern-European Countries - is (very well) educated and has a virtual interest in research. Last summer (2006) I had a long talk with one of the really major dealers - Russian nationality and located in Berlin - in Soviet Awards. He told me, that the demand concerning Glory-Cavaliers or HSUs is still rather reluctant - in comparison to Suvorv, Kutuzov, etc. -, but that trend might have changed, due to the money the "New Middle Class" in Russia now disposes. We in Austria have for very long years a true "invasion" of Russians - in the city of Vienna and specially at the winter sports resorts (Kitzbuehel, Semmering, etc.) - and these people are not "primitive" at all, but they are wise investors, despite the fact, that they spend a fortune of money in Austria. These people are not only "Oligarchs", but in the majority managers of the big Russian corporations or officers of the Russian Government. Putin supports (politically) the "New Middle Class" and these impacts we are now seeing at the sharp rise of Soviet Awards at the price tag of under USD 10k - Glory, Nevsky, RBL T 2, etc. The fact is, that the purchasing power in the Russian Federation for Soviet Awards is now higher, than in the USA - it's their cultural heritage and not the cultural heritage of the USA. And it's fine, that the Russian people see the Soviet Awards as their cultural heritage . Best regards Christian

Dear Christophe, it's "your" quiz - so we well wait for your appreciated question Best regards Christian

New question - from Christophe? Gentlemen, I would suggest, that in this case, the founder of our quiz, Christophe from Paris, might post a new question. Best regards Christian

Officers & Glories Dear Mr. "slava1stclass", many thanks for sharing the link to comrade Drachenko . One modest question to you: Where can you make out "speculation, conjecture and, in select cases, ignorance" in the discussions in this thread ? I already described such a "Drachenko-Case" in my posting yesterday: As we can read at the mentioned site http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=477 about comrade Drachenko, he got his Glory 3cl, Glory 2cl and again Glory 2cl (like my comrade Gnitienko ) as a Junior Lieutenant of aviation (мла́дший лейтена́нт авиа́ции). Due to the fact, that Drachenko promoted to a Captain of aviation (капита́н авиа́ции) at the end of the GPW, he received his Glory 1cl in exchange to his 2nd Glory 2cl in 1968 as an more senior officer. As we can also see at the photograph at the mentioned site http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=477 , which shows comrade Drachenko already as a HSU (so it had been shot after end of october 1944), he had only promoted one step to a Lieutenant of aviation (лейтена́нт авиа́ции). What we can not see at the photograph, is his second Glory 2cl, which he received before his HSU. I assume - "speculation, conjecture and, in select cases, ignorance" -, that comrade Drachenko received his 3 Glories as a Junior Lieutenant of aviation, which corresponds with the statutes of the "Order of Glory", and promoted a few weeks later - maybe due to his HSU - to the rank of Lieutenant of aviation, what we can see at the photograph. The fact is, that most of the Junior Lieutenants of aviation in the course of the GPW had not been "professional ecducated" officers, but young men and women coming directly from universities or technical colleges, etc., with a connection to aviation, who were drafted to the Soviet Air Force. That might be the reason, why they - and only Junior Lieutenants of aviation! - were included into the statutes of the "Order of Glory". In the majority of other Airforces at WW II, pilots had also an officer's rank. Again, many thanks for sharing to us that outstanding example of a Glory-Cavalier + HSU Are there other cases of officers, who got a full "Glory-Trio" at that website? Coming back to our - unknown - Cavalier with the Motherland 3cl: He does not look like as pilot, due to his decorations . Best regards Christian

Dear Ivan, we are waiting for your new question . Best regards Christian

Dear Dave, many thanks for your contribution . That's true, the lack of service awards is more than obvious! Another speculation: Maybe our Glory-Cavalier worked after the GPW in the economy and on a rather "private" basis for the KGB. That might explain the missing of the service awards and his KGB-Border-Medal + his Motherland 3cl ? Had been the officer, who got Glory 2cl, in the Soviet Air Force? It might be possible with catch-up Glories, that an officer gets a Glory - even a Glory 1cl - for a heroic deed, he fullfilled as a NCO or a sub-lieutenant in the GPW . Do you have evidence about such cases? Best regards Christian P.S.: That's true - "slave1stclass" might help with his expertise .

Glory-Cavalier + Motherland 3cl Dear Dave, during the GPW our comrade was a NCO - that's clear. Show us one case, where a comrade, who started as a sub-lieutenant at the Red Army Airforce promoted to a full Cavalier . But I remarked, that our comrade might have promoted to officers rank after the GPW in the KGB-Borders-Guard, as his medal hints to. The fact in most cases is: - Glory = NCO - Motherland = Officer Here we have a Glory-Cavalier, who also wears a Motherland 3cl - and that's an interesting case, I think. Best regards Christian

Dear Mr. "slava1stclass", many thanks for your highly appreciated expertise . I assume, that it would be also highly appreciated by the GMIC-collectors-community, if you would share some of your research or of your great "Glory-Trio-Collection" to GMIC . Best regards Christian BTW: When are you going to publish your announced comprehensive book about the "Order of Glory"?