Christian Zulus

Cavaliers Booklet - stamp of commissariat

Cavaliers Booklet page 2 & 3

Cavaliers Booklet page 0 & 1

Cover of Cavaliers Booklet

Glory 3 cl. rv.

Glory 3 cl. av.

Glory 2 cl. rv.

Glory 2 cl. av.

Glory 1 cl - rv. - s/n.: Compare to Cavaliers Booklet

Glory 1cl rv. (detail)

Glory 1cl av. (detail)

Glory 1 cl rv.

Sergeant Gnitienko's "Glory-Trio" - more detailed scans Gentlemen, as I already noted, the research about the clerical mistake in the records & archives is going on. To stop any discussion, wheater Gnietinko's set is authentic & genuine or not, I will post more scans of the group + the Cavaliers Booklet. Please compare the ribbons I post to Gnitienko's photograph in "Cavaliers of All Three Classes of the Order of Glory" Military Publishing House, Moscow, 2000 - the are exactly the same: 1 cl to wide & 2 cl the wrong way. Best regards Christian As a first scan, the Glory 1cl.

Great words, Ed Best regards Christian

Gentlemen, to sum up the discussions from a legal viewpoint: 1. It is 100 % legal to have our collections in the EU, USA and more than hundred other states of the world. 2. It is illegal - from some aspects only (!) - according to Russina Law. The fact is, that Russian Law doesn't apply to America or Europe Another point: If the legal owner (veteran or heir) of the awards sold them in 1990s to dealers/collectors in the West, then the business had been even from the Russian viewpoint o.k. and correct. Another question: Had Russia been a state with a legislation and law enforcement up to civilized standards in the time between the Soviet Union and Czar Putin? Definitly: NO . Before Putin (and after the fall of Socialism) Russia was highly corrupted state ruled by Mafia-gangs & Oligarchs and certain civil officers & politicians. So, for cases, that happended before Putin and after the CCCP there is no solid legal framework at all, I think. My 2 Cents to the legal discussion. Best regards Christian

Sorry Christophe, it is not this medal . The medal in question is about the same size, also round, also the same hanger, but it is made of genuine silver (not german silver) and the ribbon has two small yellow stripes at the border. You can see a (rather) famous person at the av. of the medal . The market value of the medal in question is also a bit higher, than the "People's Teacher of the USSR". Best regards Christian BTW: The person at the av. of the medal had some relationship to comrade Lenin ...

Gentlemen, I just received the information from Paul, that at Gnitienko's special award card, "Cavaliers Card", the s/n. 3646 for the Glory 1 cl is listed. So we have to have a look at the other documents and records. As I noted already, for me and all other collectors, who have seen the set, there is no doubt, that the Cavaliers Booklet + the Glory 1cl s/n. 1965 are genuine, authentic and undoctored. Best regards Christian

NEW QUESTION Gentlemen, again a very easy question, to make the process faster : What do we see at the front of SU-Medal: "Medal of Merit in Teaching and Education USSR" ("Medal Sa saslugi w obutschenije i wospitanije CCCR")?????? Please describe what you see in a few words - thanks Second, very small additional, question: What is the more familiar name among collectors for this prestigious (and rare) Soviet State-Medal? Best regards Christian BTW: It is a very nice, small and beautiful medal in silver.

Dear Dave, many thanks for your interesting remarks to the topic, which might be a little bit After the reunification of West- and East-Germany (FRG & GDR) in 1989/90 all the ethnic Germans from the former Soviet Union had the right to move to Germany (as most of the Jews had the right - beginning from the 1970s - to move to Israel). So, I think, that in the 1990s a not so small group of GPW-Veterans might have gone - with their orders & medals - to Germany. Most of them settled in the former GDR. Coming back to the German influence through the centuries in Russian History: Also Catherine the Great was ethnic German . We have to accept, that the Soviet Union - as former Yugoslavia or former Austro-Hungarian Empire - had been a multi-ethnic state. Even comrade Stalin was Georgian by nationality, who spoke Russian with an very heavy accent. The Red Army was not a "Russian Army", but Russian soldiers represented the largest nationality within the Red Army. It is a pity, that all 3 large multi-ethnic states - SU, YU & Austria - broke apart . BTW: All 3 states had very, very fine orders & medals . Maybe only multi-ethnic states can manufacture great awards . Maybe state-awards have a very special role in multi-ethnic states? Best regards Christian

No, there are no special laws about those countries regarding Soviet Awards, but a large number of GPW-Veterans, who had the (Soviet) nationality "Jewish" or (smaller number!) "German" left Russia for those countries in the 1990s. Jewish and also German people played an important role in the history of Russia and of the Soviet Union. According to the size of the people, the Jewish community in the Soviet Union had by far the largest number of HSUs: More than 150 received the "Hero-Title". More than 500.000 had been fighting in the lines of the Red Army. More than 200.000 KIAs. Besides the Shoa, the Jews had given the biggest sacrifice in the fight against Nazi-Germany - and had been the greatest heros also. So, there are now some very high decorated Soviet Veterans in Israel. That was the reason, why I mentioned those countries. Best regards Christian

Gentlemen, O.K., according to the current laws of Russia, Ukraine, etc. the possession of Soviet Awards outside of the country is illegal, except you are a veteran, who took his awards with him to Israel or Germany or any other country. To have high-end orders in the collection, which are either robbed or purchased from the veteran or the heirs of the veteran for an "apple and an egg" (i.e.: Glory 1cl for USD 300,-, etc., etc.) is also not very ethic . And the fact is, that all collectors, who started purchasing their "crown juwels" in the early 1990s (like me ), got the great awards for only a few dollars - maximum in the 4-digit-range. So, all the profits we made with trading Soviet Awards the last 13 years are not absolutly "clean" profits, because the veteran or the heirs of the veteran never got anything close to the market value for their orders, medals and documents. O.K., that is a fact. But on the other side the awards of the Soviet veterans found a very good home in our collections or small museums. The are going to be researched and the memory of the veteran is kept alive - his heroic deeds, his career, etc. The most important fact is, that our collectors community is bringing back the truth about WW II via research: Historic reality vs. Nazi-sight (or OSS, State Department, CIA-sight) of the Eastern Front. The fact is, that the Red Army of the peoples of the Soviet Union smashed Nazi-Germany - not Mr. Roosevelt and not Mr. Churchill. So the existence - in collections and in the www - of researched Soviet Awards in the Western World is important for the truth. I myself had a lot of guests from the former Soviet Union in my residence - officers up to a Lt.-General (Motherland 3 cl & 2cl + 3 RS for being the top military adviser in Ethiopia), who had been at that time Military Commander of Kiev. They were all very, very pleased to see my well kept modest collection of Soviet Awards. They all said, that it is great and very helpful, when Soviet Awards are kept and shown outside of the former Soviet Union. So, if I look at Dave's website, then I have to congratulate him: He has done more propaganda for the former Soviet Union, than a whole team of APN . In my view the "museum"- or "propaganda"-aspect balances out the ethic (and legal) shortcomings of our collections (or business). Coming back to the strictly legal viewpoint of our collections: If Russia might play the same game like the Jewish community with the restitution their robbed oil paintings or other treasuries from the Nazi-time, then it might become difficult for us. But only in theory, because there are much more Soviet Orders & Medals outside the former Soviet Union, than great paintings of Gustav Klimt, Egon Schiele, Edvard Munch, Peter Paul Rubens, etc., which had been robbed by the Nazis and sold to collectors. So, to proof each case - all the RS, Glories, etc. - would cost enormous sums of money for the Russian State. I think, that the "Sotheby's-case" was singular, because the Russian authorities caught the thief of these high-end awards before the auction took place. That had been legally a simple case: Somebody had stolen some items of collectibles and tried to sell them via Sotheby's. We all can sleep well, but we have a big ethic duty: To keep up the memory, do research and present it in the www . Best regards Christian

Dear Christophe, many thanks for the great pictures . It had been THE decisive battle in the GPW, because if the Nazis would have captured Moscow, maybe the history might have been developed in another way . The design of the medal looks fine - at the first glimpse. Best regards Christian

Outstanding and extremly valuable work, specially in this concentration on a few pages, Dave Best regards Christian

Dear Jim, strong and true arguments . A 4th point might be the inflation of "Umalatova-Awards", which are - rather cheap manufactured - Soviet Awards with documents, where you can fill in your name . Best regards Christian

Dear Jim, so the s/n. of that fake/copy/retro Motherland 2cl is 416 and not 1.604, as you have noted in a posting some weeks ago : http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtop...st&p=124114 It would have been a very strange coincidence, because s/n. 1.604 is in my collection - nice, cute & genuine . Best regards Christian