Christian Zulus

2nd class - silver or tombac Gentlemen, the silver-variant of the golden gilded 2nd class of the "Order of the Yugoslavian People's Army" commands a higher price, than the tombac-variant. How to make out the differnce? In my case with my 2nd class it had been easy : At the rv. on a small edge of the ray of the star it lost the gold wash and showed the silver corpus. Usually the checking of the weight should help: Both of my JNAs - 3rd class in pure silver & 2nd class in gilded silver - have a weight of +/- 65 gram. I assume that a tombac-variant of a 2nd class might be lighter in weight, than a silver-variant. Has anyone checked the weight of a tombac 2nd class ? Best regards Christian

Dear Sasa, Gentlemen, there had been an "artificial" conflict between NATO & Yugoslavia, which resulted into a completly illegal - according to all international laws ! - bombardment by the NATO and the defense of the YU-people & YU-motherland against the NATO-bombs & -rockets by the VJ. Neither the NATO, nor Yugoslavia won the war, but there had been two big loosers: The citizens of Yugoslavia and the Russian Federation. .... and two big winners: The defense industry in the USA and in Great Britain ... Two years before NATO's hughe campain "Allied Force" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NATO_bom...c_of_Yugoslavia started, Hollywood produced a great movie: "Wag the Dog" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wag_the_Dog , which gives a lot of insight, how a war in our age is "mad(e)" . Operation "Allied Force" turned out to become a complete mess and failure - NATO stood before dissolution ! - and the US-Adminstration kicked out General Wesley Clark http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark , the SACEUR, who had been responsible for the shortcomings in the planning of the war and the chaotic organisation, which almost resulted in a battle between Russian and British forces at Pristina airport . Well, Sasa is right: According to international laws, "Helsinki-Treaty", UN-Charta, etc., etc. there had been no conflict at all, but the NATO started to bomb Yugoslavia without any legitimation by the UNO . Best regards Christian

Dear Ed, the question of the number of NATO-losses during "Allied Force" might be a great subject for a masterthesis for one of your students in history . It seems, that the problem is right now, that no side of the 1999-conflict in Yugoslavia is right now interested in publications about the confrontation NATO vs. YU . The military conflict in Yugoslavia in 1999 had been completly sensless in the result: Neither had been there a clear and outright "winner" of the confrontation, nor had been the "Kosovo-Problem" solved . O.K., in the Middle East we have now a rather similar situation, which is several times more dramatic .... Well, I think, the last military campain, which made somehow a "sense" and got a clear result, had been "Falklands 1982". Best regards Christian Best regards

Dear Kevin, yes, there should be a comprehensive report from Washingtion by ISSA http://www.strategicstudies.org/ , an independent US-organisation, which should state rather similar facts, as the report of the YU General Staff does. I already mentioned that source in my previous posting. The YU-report never gave any numbers of NATO-KIAs ... Sorry ...., ISSA doesen't show that special report on their website, they offer no reports about "Allied Force" there . Maybe that material isn't free of charge . It might be very helpful, if a GMIC-member, who is located in the USA, could contact ISSA-Washington and ask, if we might publish their independent report at GMIC . Best regards Christian

Dear Chris, you listed very strong arguments, but non-NATO-sources state, that in spring/summer 1999 there had been some severe crashes of helicopters and aircrafts of the US-Forces, which happend "officially" in South America, Philipines, etc., but should have happened actually somewhere in the Westbalkans or in the Adriatic Sea. Well, I can imagine, that the YU-Forces damaged the one or other aircraft/helicopter more, which isn't listed in the "official" NATO-table of the losses during "Allied Force", but such hughe numbers of losses - personal & material - might be hardly believable. Best regards Christian

Dear Nick, that's also what I think and I already pointed that out in my posting: "Well, the question remains: Why had all the captured pilots never been presented via RTS-TV or other medias in Yugoslavia to the public, as they did with the 3 captured GIs .... " Ivan Lazarevic lists in his table http://members.tripod.com/IvanLucky/table.htm 218 KIAs and 24 captured pilots . There is hard evidence, that the NATO-losses had been higher, than the "official" reports by the NATO tell, but I think, that these figures of the extremly large numbers of KIAs & captured pilots are more or less "fantasy". The General Staff of Yugoslavia presented after operation "Allied Force" statistics of 128 shot down aircrafts and 14 shot down helicopters, but mentioned only, that there had been also a "considerable numbers of KIAs". ISSA in Washington D.C. http://www.strategicstudies.org/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International...ies_Association published rather similar figures after the war. Well, ISSA isn't run by the Russian secret service, but it is - as an NGO - a respected US-institution. Another question arises: What is a "shot down" aircraft? Can an aircraft be called "shot down", when the skilfull pilot could manage to reach a airfield outside of Yugoslavia, but the plane was totally damaged and had to be wrecked afterwards? At least such an aircraft was a "total loss". Well, there had yet not been a lot of research in depth about the 1999-war NATO vs. Yugoslavia, because neither the NATO, nor the government of Serbia is really interested in enhanced publicity about "Allied Force", I guess . Best regards Christian

Dear Belaruski, well, that's true and they Communists in Germany & Austria produced some nice items, but I assume, that there are not so many left, due to the years 1933 - 1945. I only have a "1st of May Badge" of the Austrian Communists from 1926 and nothing more of the pre-war period. Best regards Christian

Dear Kevin, that would be interesting . Well, I think the price should be only a (very) few Euros . Best regards Christian

Dear Benas, dear Kevin, Kevin, you are partly right: These items are decorations of the "?sterreichischer Kameradschaftsbund" http://www.okb.at/ , section Styria, and of the "Landesfeuerwehrverband Nieder?sterreich" http://www.noelfv.at/ . The left one - "Chinese-Style" - is a "Verdienstzeichen 3. Klasse" from the Landesfeuerwehrverband Nieder?sterreich(Firefighterunion of Lower Austria): http://www.hdrauch.com/PDF2/RaOrd-001-Oest...h-2Republik.pdf The right one is a "Verdienstkreuz in Gold" from the ?KB-Landesverband Steiermark (Austrian Military Veterans Association, section Styria): http://www.verwaltung.steiermark.at/cms/be...0109999/254643/ Both are very nice, but rather common decorations in Austria. I would estimate a market price - each of them - of about EUR 30,-. Best regards Christian

Dear Kevin, that's a very old lapel pin of the Austrian Trade Union from the late 1940s or 1950s in the very first form. It's nice, because cased & well preserved . I have such an badge - with a lot of patina and without case - in my collection. Well, the market price of such a ?GB-ensign shouldn't be too high . Best regards Christian

Conflict in Yugoslavia 1999 Gentlemen, I just found that comprehensive website about the 1999-conflict in Yugoslavia in the internet: http://www.aeronautics.ru/yugoslavia/index.htm It's a Russian website, but the complete content is in English . The listed "official" NATO-losses had been already rather "drastic", but the NATO aircraft accidents, documented by sources from Greece (NATO-country!), Russia, Yugoslavia, etc., etc. had been rather "horrible". Here is a link to about a GRU (Russian military secret service) - report dealing with NATO-losses during "Allied Force": http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws002/natolosses-review01.htm That's a table & map of NATO-KIAs & captured pilots compilied by Ivan Lazarevic: http://members.tripod.com/IvanLucky/table.htm . Well, the question remains: Why had all the captured pilots never been presented via RTS-TV or other medias in Yugoslavia to the public, as they did with the 3 captured GIs .... Had there been a secret deal among NATO & the Republic of Yugoslavia like: Targets in advance against not-publishing (all) NATO-losses ? I think, that the main shortcoming of the NATO-commanders had been, that they didn't took the (almost) perfect air-defense-system of Yugoslavia into account (and the courage of the YU-fighter-pilots). Best regards Christian BTW: 3 more threads at GMIC-YU, dealing with the 1999-conflict NATO vs. Republic of Yugoslavia: - http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13964 (shot down F-117 A) - http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=16821 (Airmuseum Belgrade) - http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=16728 (Military Museum Belgrade)

Yugoslav Military Aviation photo-galleries Gentlemen, here http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/index2.htm you will find 7 large photo-galleries, which show a comprehensive documention about Yugoslav Military Aviation in 1980s & 1990s. Best regards Christian

1999-section of the Military Museum in Belgrade Gentlemen, I found a nice presentation of the 1999-section (NATO-War) of the military Museum in the internet: http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws002/museum/index.htm You will find there 3 galleries with photographs of Dusko Markovic. Best regards Christian

M-84 JNA's main battle tank Gentlemen, that's the Wiki-link to the famous Yugoslav M-84 tank: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-84 Best regards Christian

JNA Gentlemen, that's a rather comprehensive Wiki-link in English about the Yugoslav People's Army JNA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_People's_Army All the military ranks from 1943 to 1991 are shown and some further interesting links are listed. Best regards Christian

Recipients of the "Order of Freedom" Gentlemen, following 7 Yugoslav outstanding military leaders got the "Order of Freedom": World War II - Josip Broz Tito - Ivan Gosnjak - Koca Popovic - Peko Dapcevic - Kosta Nadj NATO-War 1999 - Dragoljub Ojdanic - Nebojsa Pavkovic Also 2 foreigners got their "Order of Freedom": - Georgi Zhukov - Leonid Brezhnev ( ) Ojdanic & Pavkovic got genuine & authentic "Orders of Freedom" from Milosevic, because two of them had been manufactured by Serbian juwellers for them. Best regards Christian

JAT Boeing 737-300 Gentlemen, JAT took the Boeing 737-300 in the year 1985 into service: So, that lapel pin has to be from the year 1985 . Best regards Christian

1.000 postings at GMIC-Yugoslavia Gentlemen, I am not getting paid for making propaganda, but I just want to remark, that GMIC-YU has already reached the benchmark of 1.000 postings and more than 15.000 views. Many thanks to all contributors . Best regards Christian

YU-HSL of Milan's ("orden master") former collection Gentlemen, that YU-HSL had been in the collection of GMIC-member Milan ("orden master"): Best regards Christian

Order of Freedom - Orden slobode Gentlemen, everybody knows that most prestigeous YU-order (and no one has one in his collection ... ) Just an "phaleristic-orgy" of flawless rubys & diamonds - red star, 5 torches & an incredible hughe diamond in the center. Only to compare with the Soviet "Order of Victory": It's also the rarest of all YU-orders: Only 7 had been confered during Tito's era (Zhukov got one and in 1947 Tito got his own one). Usually Tito always wore his "Order of Freedom" in full decoration and the rest of his numerous YU-awards as minis. That had been of course against the regulations - either all awards in full decoration, or only minis or ribbons -, but who cares . After the 1999-war Milosevic confered two "Orders of Freedom": - Army General Dragoljub Ojdanic (Chief of General Staff) - Col. General Nebojsa Pavkovic (Commander of the 3rd Army in Kosovo) So, we have in sum 9 bearers of the "Order of Freedom". Best regards Christian BTW: GMIC-member Paul Margulies ("pmargulies") has the uniform of Pavkovic with the ribbon of his "Order of Freedom" in his collection .

Dear Belaruski, many thanks . I assume, that genuine badges of the German or Austrian Communist Party before the year 1945 are extremly rare, because no clear minded communist comrade would have kept them in his home after 1933 or 1938, under the Nazi-regime . If the German Gestapo would have found the badge "10 Years Soviet-Russia" in one's flat, that might have resulted in a "one-way-ticket" to Auschwitz . Best regards Christian

That's the question to our native experts ... Best regards Christian

JAT lapel pins - communist period Gentlemen, these are JAT lapel pins from the communist period. The first one is just an ordinary JAT pin and the second one is commemorating the introduction of the BOEING 737-300 aircraft into the service of JAT - might be around 1980 ? That's the link to JAT-Airways http://www.jat.com/ , one of the savest airlines in the world . Best regards Christian

30th anniversary of workers selfmanagement - 2 Slovenian lapel pins from a table medal Gentlemen, I introduced that table medal at this thread: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=18495 . Here are the 2 matching lapel pins: Best regards Christian

Tito's death & funeral - 2 lapel pins Gentlemen, these are two lapel pins about Tito's death: Best regards Christian