eatmeat

I am still doing some reserch to comment on few points. but for now only quick replay: "Now, document with that date does not have to mean that the orders themselves were produced. It could have been made and handed much later." This could be true, but all this documents saw the serial number of the awarded Order, so why would somenone put on a documente XX was awarded OMP no.234 if they did not have this number in hand? I have never seen that a percosn would get document with different serial numebr on the document and Order. Yes i have seen with no serial number just the name of the order but never a wrong one. So that is why I am certain if, the document dated 26.6. with serial nuber XX it was realy given to this person on this day this number.

Hi, On some FB page there was a discussion about an order that is called pronounced Order for the merit to the people/ Orden Zasluga za narod I. class 1st type or better prototype. Here are is one side of the story: J. A. Danilov wrote an excellent book in which he deals with different models of the Order and Medal of Merit for the People. The book also describes the unaccepted Order of Merit for the People I. type. When IKOM was closed and relocated wo sets of the Order of Merit for the People 1st type, were found. One set of all three degrees was sold to a collector from Russia, and the second set of the 1st type was bought by a famous collector from Belgrade. (One order from the second set is being sold at the Barac & Pervan auction in Zagreb). However, a few years ago, copies of the order appeared on the market. The differences between the original and the copy are in the manufacturing technology. The original orders were forged with a die, without the manufacturer's mark. The copies were made by casting in molds without the final engraving and chiseling, which can be seen in the rays between the arms of the star. The copies of the order have a screw: "ZIN * KOVNICA". Now here is my dilemma: 1st IKOM was an old manufacturer form the time of Austria. During the war they were producing all sorts of NDH items under the name BK (Brača Knaus) and/or GK (Griesbach i Knaus). Zagreb was liberated on 8.5.1945 and the order Zasluge za narod was instituted on 9.6.1945, one month after liberation. So by the timeline form liberation till institution its only 1 month time, in witch they must created blacksmit tool and prototype. As the design was changed we know that this design was not excepted. So I imagine that a new design was to be made in a shape that we know today. And i dont think that next day after liberation they started to produce Socialist prototype orders. 2nd. we know that first orders of Zasluge za narod were made in ZNB in Belgrade, that was liberated on October 1944 so they had enough time and "peace" to create all the preparations and prototypes. So why would they decide to do prototype in Zagreb where there was still war time for such a special occasion? My yungest document for Orden zasluge za narod was issued on 26.6.1945 so the timeline is realy short form idea, to production and distribution. 3rd We know that Yugoslavia were makeing orders for Albania, at the end is a picture of Albanian order of bravery. They look very similar by design. Also this "1st type" looks very much like all Albanian orders and nothing like Yugoslavian orders form that time. So my conclusion is that this is a mistake (unfortunaly no documentation exists as it was destroyed), and this is not a Yugoslav 1st type or prototype but an Prototype made for Albania, but put in the Yugoslav box that they had on haned. What is your oppinion??? 1st type Orden zasluge za narod ??? Albanian Order for bravery

Yes this is it 😃 a am still leraning how to do "quots"

Hello, all this photos have watermark, who is the owner of originals or does anybody know whose watermark this is?

I recently got a medals group form a Slovenian partisan. All with papers and matching numbers, and some other documents such as passports, driving licenses etc. But from all items only one is really interesting and rare. An awarding document "Potrdilo" in Slovenian or "Uverenje" in Serbo-Croatian for Soviet made Partisan remembrance 1941 medal form October 1944. In all my years I have never seen awarding document for Partisan rememberance 1941. After creation of Ikom version he got a new one also with booklet "legitimacija" with matching numbers.

Yes unfortunally you are correct. One version is it was a fire one version is it was destroyed... one wersion was that archive of IKOM factory contained a lot of this information but it was all destroyed whan the facroty closed... But all stories lead to one thing, award are not reserchable. Also I dont know it the archive contained any usefull info as i was told it only contained "person XY was awarded order XX III. class" but on serial numbers etc.

this type of needle was the first one to use (in case of order of Yugoslaf Flag 2 calss) and the first one to use in changing/remodeling the screws on orders such as Narodno Oslobođenje, Zasluge za narod, Bratstvo i Jedinstvo and Orden Rada I. I have not seen this type on any other orders so far.

As for II. class 1st model (3 rivets model) the lowest i have seen is 554 and the highest is 1097. This was awarded directly in the weeks/months after the war. After the 3 rivets model comes ZIN model, where number 1310 was awarded on 18.2.1946. In general the lower the number the earlier it was awarded. But this is not always true as i seen papers for numbers 2588 awarded on 12.1.1946. Whan the orders were made each republic or military corps/division/army got a parcel of orders and they were giving them to the soldiers, so you can have a mixture of numbers and dates. The higest numebr of the II. class i have seen is 49454 (with screw) but remade into a needle version i have seen 58325.

This is a very common thing, that an order on screw was remade into needle. Usually IKOM screw type is remade into needle version, and it was done by both IKOM and ZIN, so you can get a mixture of different producers. There are also a lot of variants where old III. class was issued as a new II. class, and variants where old III. class was remade into new I. class.

All good peaces. With order of Partisan star you have to know that Moscow mint created cca. 20.000 orders of the partisan star 3rd class, but only 10.300 were awarded form 1944-1973. All unawarded orders lay in the storages until they were found and put on the market. So if the order is very shiny it usually means that it was not awarded. Also you can find them still in the original packages paper bags or waxed paper. At the award ceremony paper was thrown away and only the order was given. Only way to be 100% shure that an order was awarded is to have an awarding document with matching number on it, but this documents are rare.

Any info of where this medals are now? I managed to get order for military valour 1. class (Orden za vojne zasluge 1 reda). And I would like to get a few more if not the whole set.

For orders made in Yugoslavia that are numbers we can assume that the lower the number the earlier it was awarded (with some deviations but number 170.000 was awarded later than 10.000). What about the few orders that were made in Soviet union e.g. Order of the partisan star. For example Order of the partisan star II. Class, during the war Soviets made 8500 orders and send them to Titos HQ. From 8500 only 1500 was awarded, but as you have awarding documents stating serial numbers form 250 to 2500 we can assume they were not awarded in the ascending order. I have in my collection a group of documents form the same person. He was awarded partisan star II. Class no. 2300 in December 44 and another one numbered 870 in may 45. So 5 months later completely different serial number. I assume that they send different batches form Titos HQ to other countries HQ, and each local HQ or unit started to award its fighters. For example orders numbering 100-200 were send to Serbia and orders 500-600 were send to Slovenia, so we can have order number 121 and order 561 awarded on the same day. Does any one know any literature or have any information about what serial numbers went to witch country?

I would say this is also a ribbon bar of Branko Mamula, but the latest one, as he recived Order of the Hero of Socialist Labour in 1985 and a combination of these medals is very rare. Some interesting examples of ribbons bars I have. Figure 1: Different types of reverse, an interesting example made for quick fastening / changing. the one on the bottom is an interesting example of adding new orders, sewn at home ribbon. Figure 2: An interesting way of assembling from individual metal ribbons Figure 3: Old model, composed of 1 + 2 + 2 and not 3 in a row as prescribed. Figure 4: first - interesting combination, Order of the Republic, Order of Labor, 2x Order of Merit and 2 lower medals. Probably a non-commissioned officer who then went into civilian civil service. The second - a NCO member of the mission in Sinai. The third interesting combination is a medal for war virtues as the lowest medal and the Order of the National Army of the 2nd degree as a very high decoration. Figure 5: The old type of ribbons, National hero Boško Šiljegović ended the war as the political commissar of the 4th Army. Figure 6: Interesting pronouns, in military service for at least 10 years, but not a single medal winner, probably a soldier or junior non-commissioned officer. Figure 7: National hero Janko Sekirnik ended the war as commander of the Slovenian XIV. division. Figure 8: Only 3 ribbons of rather high orders, perhaps he did not wear other decorations? Figure 9: my humble colection

I have a few first type diplomas for awarded orders. There are 2 variations. First that say in the name of "na predlog vrhovnog komandanta..." english: " on the proposal of the Commander-in-Chief" and second "na predlog predsednika vlade FNRJ" "on the proposal of the Prime Minister of the FNRJ". My question is what was the difference or what was the rule for one or the other type, as Tito was the prime minister as he was the army commander in chief. Is the difference maybe if the award was beeing given to an army person the citation was by the Commande in Chief, but if the civilian was awarded the citation was by the Prime Minister? Does any of you have any more informations? I my collection I have 2 documents (one no rank, one civilian position "rukovodioac" or in bad translation political leader )that are given by the Prime minister and 6 (4 with army ranks and 2 with no army rank- one for national hero and one for order for bravery) by the Commander in Chief. I dont have enough diplomas to be certain of these finding.

Name: F. Šetrajčič born 27.12.1916.