jf42

You're welcome. T.F. Mills is not infallible; the monumental work was never completed before some idiot hijacked his domain name. So there are errors and question marks in some of the service record charts, but it's always a good starting point.

Here are the postings of 1st Bn Staffordshire Regiment in the 20 years running up to amalgamation in 2006: (From T.F. Mills archived britishregiments.org <http://web.archive.org/web/20071025082950/http://www.regiments.org/deploy/uk/reg-inf/038staff.htm>) 1986.01 Germany: Fallingbostel 7 Armd Bde 1990.10 (Persian Gulf) 1991.04 Germany: Fallingbostel 7 Armd Bde 1991.11 England: Chester 42 Bde 1992.04 (Northern Ireland) 1992.11 England: Chester 42 Bde 1994.01 Northern Ireland: Ballykinlar 39 Inf Bde 1996.10 (Hong Kong) 1997.02 Northern Ireland: Ballykinlar 39 Inf Bde 1996.03 England: Tern Hill (Clive Barracks) 143 Bde 2000.08 England: Tidworth (Mooltan Barracks) 1 Mech Bde [Warrior bn] 2000 Cyprus UNFICYP 2000 England: Tidworth (Mooltan Barracks) 2002.11 (Kosovo) KFOR 2003.05 England: Tidworth (Mooltan Barracks) 2005.04 (Iraq) 2005.10.25 England: Tidworth (Mooltan Barracks) 12 Bde 2007.08.24 3rd Battalion, The Mercian Regiment (Staffords) 2009 Germany: Fallingbostel The multi-cam Action Man pyjamas were first shown to the press in 2009 and were rolled out first to units deploying in Helmand to make up for the inadequacies of the 2-colour desert DPM in the tropical vegetaion of the 'green zone' along the Helmand river. I am surprised it took three years for the uniform to reach the 3 MERCIANS/ Staffords in Germany as it seems to have been omnipresent in UK for a while but if their first deployment to Afghanistan was in 2012 perhaps that would explain it. Apologies: The formatting of the deployment chart was perfect before I pressed 'Submit'

If that is a grenade insignia on the cap badge, is there a chance it could be to a Fusilier regiment? How long after the war did the Cap, G.S. remain in use before superceded by the beret proper (in most cases dark blue)?

The plot thickens....

It might be 'LVI' i.e. Latin numerals for 56. In which case the SBP could possibly relate to the 56th (West Essex) Regiment of Foot. The web shows only an image of an oval SBP with Arab numerals. The regimental colour did at some point bear Latin numerals. I don't know whether by the 1830s we might expect to see the Gibraltar insignia awarded for service in the siege of 1779-83 as commemorated in the regiment's motto 'Montis Insignia Calpe.' The 56th returned to Britain from Mauritius in 1826 being stationed initially in Hull before moving to Ireland in 1827. The regiment sailed to Jamaica in 1831, leaving four depot companies in England. They remained in Jamaica until 1840 when they moved to Canada, returning to Britain in 1842. (Dates from Wikipedia)

Probably a slip of the pen but maybe it's worth pointing out that the badge on the OP photo was to the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) as opposed to the Q.O. Cameron Highlanders, whose badge is shown alongside that of the Cameronians in QSA Mike's subsequent post. The Cameronians bonnet was dark green with a black tourie The 79th Cameron Highlanders wore plain blue Glengarry bonnets from circa 1841 when their CO allegedly introduced the folding 'Highland' bonnet as military undress headgear (rather than McDonnell of Glengarry as tradition would have it). The 42nd (Black Watch ) followed suit when they finally adopted the Glengarry circa 1868, as did the HLI (71st &74th ) after 1881. The 42nd seem to have worn undress bonnets without dicing from early in the C19th. The Seaforth Highlanders (72nd & 78th originally wore plain glengarries after being formed in 1881, but added a diced band circa 1885. The 92nd Gordons Hldrs and the 93rd Sutherland Hldrs wore bonnets with diced bands from 1853 when the Glengarry was ordered for all kilted Highland corps- an order ignored by the Black Watch, who, for reasons unknown, stuck to the so-called 'Kilmarnock' - without dicing- for another fifteen years, through the Crimea and the Mutiny. They maintained their difference by wearing a Glengarry absolutely unadorned except for the regimental cap badge. Sorry, what was the question?

But true enough, the Cameronians badge displayed does not belong on that Glengarry.

Interesting. I remember clearly first seeing some Royal Green Jackets cadre at the Depot wearing in DPM in 1970. Some of them were still wearing 7th Armoured brigade flashes so presumably they had been issued the kit previously when with 1st RGJ in BAOR. (IIRC, there were some 20th Armoured flashes from 2nd RGJ, too). In 1969, 2RGJ were used in a training/PR film called 'Battle Group' shot in BAOR and may have recieved early issue of DPM although in the photo set reached via the following link not everyone is wearing DPM. I have a feeling that the Recce Platoon was among the first to receive the kit. http://www.rgjphotos.org.uk/2rgj/2rgjbgfilm.htm http://www.rgjphotos.org.uk/2rgj/2rgjbgfilm.htm (looks like a mix of 1st ('1966')and 2nd Pattern (1968) to me!) 1 RGJ were wearing olive green combats when they went Northern Ireland in 1969. Back in BAOR a year later they were in DPM 3 RGJ seem to have had DPM first issued when they went to Northern Ireland in 1970 Most people around the Depot were still in olive green combat gear but some of the RGJ were exemplars of military chic wearing tiny berets, tailored US Army 'denims', non-regulation high-lacing boots. The new DPMs set off the image. Only one regiment, large - hardly scientific, I know, but I'd be interested to see chapter and verse on the DPM kit being with battalions as early as 1966. For instance as a crude, unscientific rule of thumb, I would not expect to see images of DPM worn in Northern Ireland before 1970. Would that be mistaken? IWM captions- don't start me.

Ah. I stand corrected. That makes sense You have to love it, don't you though ? The '1960 Pattern' DPM- "not manufactured until 1968 (issued in 1969) -according to IWM as quoted above. When did the '1968' Pattern actually hit the streets. I am pretty sure the '1960 Pattern DPM' had a hood attachment (as did the olive drab?) but perhaps I wasnt paying close enough attention. I know the RGJ who were among the first to be issued with DPM tended to rip the jacket linings out and have the trousers tailored to within an inch of a healthy sperm count for barracks wear. Perhaps those were in fact 1968s.

Post 2 might be the blue DZ flash of 2 Para

I would have to differ. That collar was introduced on later models of DPM. This is not my AOE but I recollect that the earliest models of DPM combat jacket were essentially of the same design as the olive drab 'gaberdine' combat smock that preceded the introduction of the DPM. In the early to mid-1970s, at any rate, it still had the stitched stand-and-fall collar with storm tab as opposed to the mandarin-style storm collar with no lapel that is seen on the examples shown here.

I have a button to the same somewhere from when my parents lived near Mons.

'Belgian'?

Full Dress was suspended in 1914 and, apart from officers and bandsmen, the scarlet doublet was never worn by Highland soldiers again. Full Dress, continued 'on the books' after WW1, appearing in the 1934 Dress Regulations butwas finally done away with, except for the Foot Guards, Household cavalry and Royal Horse Artillery at th eend of the 1930s. For George VI's Coronation in May 1937 a special blue Coronation Dress was ordered which formed the basis of No.1 Dress after WW2. So, on the face of it, as this is an ordinary soldier's doublet, it should date from 1914 or earlier. There should be shoulder titles on the yellow shoulder straps. In the run up to WW1 these would have been brass. Prior to 1908 they were embroidered in white worsted wool. I can't comment on the bonnet or badge, except to say that A&SH bonnets had six tails, the Black Watch bonnet had four tails, the Seaforth, Gordon, and Cameron five, (though that might have been just for officers). Never less than four. The 'Sutherland' dicing on the cap band is correct but there is always the possibility of a more modern bandsman's bonnet with synthetic feathers being substituted for an authentic bonnet with the ostrich feathers.

Try the Scots Guards. Beginning with the Boer War (1899-1902) the Scots Guards adopted recognition flashes of 'dicing' on tropical helmets and 'slouch' hats worn on campaign. This derived from the diced bands on headgear, sometimes referred to as 'national tartan,' that had denoted regiments with Scottish associations since the late C18th. As a Royal regiment, the SG dicing, worn only on forage caps, was red and white with blue squares in the median strip. Dicing for non-Royal regiments had dark green median squares. Currently, I believe the Scots Guards wear the generic Foot Guards TRF of three horizontal bands: blue/crimson/blue. Perhaps they use a battalion ID of 'national' dicing. That's probably your best line of enquiry. I am not aware of any other Scottish units wearing 'national' dicing as TRF. 5th Battalion, The Royal Regiment of Scotland (5 SCOTS), formerly the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, wore battalion TRFs of the red and white 'Sutherland' check dicing. Since they were reduced in June 2013 to a company-sized unit focussing on ceremonial and public duties (Balaklava Company, 5 SCOTS (A&SH), I don't know whether they continue to wear a company TRF on working dress when training for the Light Infantry active service role they retain.

Bearing in mind that the Patrol Jacket was made Regulation in 1867 but was based on a style of light jacket that had been worn informally since at least the period of the Indian Mutiny, that may explain any anomalies in the specific details of the coat Hume is wearing. Might non-regulation 'mufti' also explain why he is weraing miniature medals?

This badge was subsequently adopted by the 4th Armoured Brigade in BAOR and worn during Desert Storm in 1991 The Brigade currently operates as a Mechanized formation and apparently, in accordance with the fashion for rather heavy-handed branding and to keep the media happy, someone has come up with the rather unappealing monicker 'The Black Rats.' Well, 'Desert Rats' was taken.

Thanks, Mervyn. Yes, erase post 3 please. The edit option expired while I back-tracked.

A brief further investigation shows that in 1864 the title of the Dumfries Militia was changed to 'The Scottish Borderers'. This reflected the addition of two Kirkcudbright companies of the disbanded Galloway Rifles and the high number of recruits from the Borders towns and even from across the Debatable Lands in Longtown. At this time the Regiment was authorised "to wear the dice border on the shako and forage cap." Chapter VI, History of the 3rd Battalion the King's Own Scottish Borderers 1798-1907 R.W. Weir <http://archive.org/stream/historyof3rdbatt00weir#page/n95/mode/2up/search/Borderers> See also: A History of the Scottish Borderers Militia Robert W. Weir <http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/A_History_of_the_Scottish_Borderers_Mili.html?id=Ifs8AAAAYAAJ&redir_esc=y>

PLEASE IGNORE THE PRECEDING POST. The band of dicing with the faded yellow squares suggests this is an officer's undress cap of the 26th Cameronian Regiment who had worn a band of 'regimental tartan' on their caps since at least 1827- as it was claimed in 1858. The cap badge lacks a Regimental number seen on the broad crowned caps of the 1830s and 40s and would appear to be a generic badge worn by Scottish officers following the introduction of the narrow-crowned undress cap introduced in 1852 and seen in numerous Roger Fenton photographs of British troops in the Crimea. It has suitably Caledonian thistles and what looks like a rather literal, St Andrew's cross and primitive Order of the Thistle Star. A spanner is thrown into the works when closer examination reveals that the barely discernible lettering in the circlet around the central emblems reads 'Scottish Borderers' This is not an alternative title of the 25th Regiment, also known as the 'King's Own Borderers' between 1805 and 1881 when the word 'Scottish was added to the title. The Scottish Borderers were a Militia battalion that in 1873 formed part of the 61st military sub-district of the North British (i.e. Scottish) District, which with its depot at Ayr embraced the counties of the Borders and southwest Scotland. That's all I can tell you about them. Whether they had an affiliation with the Cameronians, whose traditional recruiting area was in the South West, I am unable to say. It is plausible. The peak (visor) of officers' caps showed an increasingly wider and more horizontal profile towards the end of the 1850s till it acquired the characteristic shallow form of the 1860s and1870s. This cap would appear to be from that classic period. This style of cap endured until superseded by the so-called Staff Pattern cap circa 1880. Hope that's of interest.

The band of dicing with the faded yellow squares suggests this is an officer's undress cap of the 26th Cameronian Regiment who had worn a band of 'regimental tartan' on their caps since at least 1827- as it was claimed in 1858. The cap badge lacks a Regimental number seen on the broad crowned caps of the 18 30s and 40s and would appear to be a generic badge worn by Scottish officers following the introduction of the narrow-crowned undress cap introduced in 1852 and seen in numerous Roger Fenton photographs of British troops in the Crimea. It has suitably Caledonian thistles and what looks like a rather literal, St Andrew's cross and primitive Order of the Thistle Star. The peak (visor) of officers' caps showed an increasingly wider and more horizontal profile towards the end of the 1850s till it acquired the characteristic shallow form of the 1860s and1870s. This cap would appear to be from that classic period. This style of cap endured until superseded by the so-called Staff Pattern cap circa 1880- just before the merging of the 26th Cameronians with the 90th Perthshire Light Infantry to form the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles). The new regiment being a Rifle corps wore no dicing on the undress glengarry.

I think this was put to bed in November http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/56244-more-on-mitre-hat/?hl=mitre

Certainly not an authentic British grenadier 'mitre' cap from C18th Century, although it draws on design elements from the pre-1768 cap- the White Horse of Hanover, a Garter star, etc. As stated on another site, this would appear to be a part of a C20th theatrical costume. The character of 'Serjeant Kite' from George Farquar's "Recruiting Officer" (written in 1706) is a possible candidate.

You'll find a great deal of what you need to know from- <http://web.archive.org/web/20080108080429/http://www.regiments.org/regiments/index.htm#table> not always infallible- particularly with regard to the Fifth's conversion to fusiliers!- but with the added satisfaction of putting the material together yourself , which means it should stick in your memory the better for passing it on to your young charges (Poor lambs!)

"I.II. III. IV. etc" as opposed to "1.2.3.4"? I couldn't say. 19th century kultural snobbery, perhaps? The Staff Corps were an elite within an elite.