Some British and Commonwealth medals

[Laurence Strong]

After the 65 Indo/Pakistani war he received the 1385 Tamgha-i-Jang, and this is the one Ed says is in the wrong place and so it is, however I don't see Dvr Haq Nawaz as being much more than semi-literate for the time period and sphere of the globe we are talking about, and figure that Order of precedence would not be in his train of thought. by the time he received this medal he could have been retired or near the end of his service and did not see the need to get a new bar, so he shoves "whities" medals as far over as he can- to less than the space of 2 ribbon widths...

[Laurence Strong]

And as you can see there was only room to stick half of the 1385 Tamgha-i-Jangribbon out, the reason that it is out of place is that in the order of establishment it was the last medal to be issued to him.

At best it is a vet tinkered bar, and at worst it's a tailored bar, so who's right...you be the judge

Thanks for looking and feel free to comment

Edited October 17, 2006 by Laurence Strong

[Laurence Strong]

Well, er, the artillery was, as they assert, "ubique", so how to tell?

Almost forgot.

"Ubique - Everywhere" is the motto of the Artillery, it's part of our hat badge, As after the advent of Artillery very few battles happened without their participation we would have to have enormous colors to fly all the battle honours, so at some point in time it was decreed that our Guns would be our Colors and is indicated to this day by the consecrating ceremonies and the etching of the Queen's cypher into the top of the tube's

Edited October 17, 2006 by Laurence Strong

[Avitas]

That does seem to make sense, as that's what I noticed also was the unusual way the medals were mounted, with different medals getting different amounts of "ribbon space." Seems to be a logical explanation in my view as it does all add up as a "vet tinkered bar". Let's see what Ed thinks

Cheers,

Pat

[Ed_Haynes]

Interesting story, interesting hypothetical tale. Cute.

But there are still the medals and the asserted group. And I still don't like it.

I cannot imagine our imagined soldier would be so ignorant of the order of wearing of the medals of his own country, in whose forces he served (if we are to believe this group) for something like 18 years while serving the king for maybe 5 years.

As my teenage daughter puts it . . . whatever . . . .

The proper order of wearing, just to put it on the record, would be:

GSM

TiJ

Pakistan Medal

Republic Medal

And then the Brit stuff you all know

[Laurence Strong]

The proper order of wearing, just to put it on the record, would be:

GSM

TiJ

Pakistan Medal

Republic Medal

And then the Brit stuff you all know

The GSM is the one with the Kashmir bar correct? Are you saying that more than one medal is out of place?

[Ed_Haynes]

The GSM is the one with the Kashmir bar correct? Are you saying that more than one medal is out of place?

Oh, yes, the Pakistani medals are a random hash.

[Laurence Strong]

This came in. It has passed the "Ed test" so I am safe

A group of 5 medals to a Havildar in the Indian Artillery, with rank progression denoting a nice move up the ranks from being a Driver to a Havildar duringat least 20 years of service.

They are all loose, and I suspect the ribbons are replacements as the do not reflect the age and patina on the medals them selves.

It consists of:

Raksha Medal named 1177841 DVR. HARBHAJAN SINGH, ARTY

Sangram Medal named 1177841 L/NK. HARBHAJAN SINGH, ARTY

Sainya Seva Medal clasp NEFA named 1177841 DVR. HARBHAJAN SINGH, ARTY

Long Service Medal 20 years named 1177841 HAV. HARBHAJAN SINGH,ARTY

Long Service Medal 9 years named 1177841 L-NK. HARBHAJAN SINGH,ARTY

The dealer stated that the Sainya Seva Medal with the NEFA clasp is the least encountered clasp, however I do not know if this is true or not

[Laurence Strong]

Raksha Medal

[Laurence Strong]

Sangram Medal

[Laurence Strong]

Sainya Seva Medal clasp NEFA

[Laurence Strong]

Long Service Medal 20 years

[Laurence Strong]

Long Service Medal 9 years

Thanks for looking

[Laurence Strong]

Pashchimi Star

4452696 SEP HARMESH SINGH, SIKH LI

The Sikh Light Infantry finds its origins in the Sikh Pioneers raised in 1857. Sikh Pioneers were used in various military campaigns in India and abroad, and highly regarded for their determined resolve to complete the assigned tasks against all opposition. The Sikh Pioneers were later merged into the Sappers and Miners. World War-II and its need for additional troops saw the rise of Mazhabi and Ramdasia Sikhs as a regiment in 1941. The designation was changed to the Sikh Light Infantry in 1944.

In view of its linkages with the Pioneers, the Sikh Light Infantry received its earlier seniority after the Sikh Regiment. The Sikh Light Infantry draws its man power from the Mazhabi and Ramdasia elements amongst the Sikhs. They had long formed part of the armies of the Sikhs' Tenth Guru and in later Khalsa armies. The regiment has produced one Army Chief, General Ved Prakash Malik (10th Sikh LI).

? Regimental Centre: Fatehgarh, Uttar Pradesh.

? Regimental Insignia: A sharp-edged Quoit, or Chakra, used by the Sikhs in combat, mounted with a Kirpan, the Sikh dagger.

? Motto: Deg Teh Fateh (Prosperity in Peace and Victory in War).

? War Cry: Bole So Nihal, Sat Sri Akal (He who cries God is Truth, is ever Happy).

[Ed_Haynes]

Nice, though oddly hidden away under "British" awards.

[Laurence Strong]

Thanks Ed , it started out as "British and Commonwealth" however the focus seems to have narrowed I you have the power Ed feel free to move it to the appropriate spot

A Halvidar in the Sikh L. I.

Edited January 18, 2007 by Laurence Strong

[Tony]

Nice medals Laurence, I wished I knew more/anything about them.

Aren't India and Pakistan in the Commonwealth any more or have I misunderstood? Or am I just too tired at the moment?

Tony

[Laurence Strong]

Thanks Tony

Don't know a whole lot about India's and pakistans medals and orders, and it's a learning experience- go back a few posts -, but I go over other threads and glean what info I can.

Not floging this however I await this book hiting the shelves:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13704&hl=

[Michael Johnson]

India has always been in the Commonwealth. Pakistan withdrew after the Commonwealth recognized Bangladesh in 1972, but rejoined in 1989, only to be suspended in 1999 (until 2004) following a military coup.

Edited January 18, 2007 by Michael Johnson

[Ed_Haynes]

India has always been in the Commonwealth. Pakistan withdrew after the Commonwealth recognized Bangladesh in 1972, but rejoined in 1989, only to be suspended in 1999 (until 2004) following a military coup.

A technicality, friends. The queen has no authority as India (and Pakistan and Balngaldesh) are self-governing republics.

I discuss INDEPENDENT Indian awards over in the international forum.

The "empire" in India is dead and no one I know mourns that fact.

Edited January 18, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[leigh kitchen]

.......

The "empire" in India is dead and no one I know mourns that fact.

The British certainly don't appear to. The only people I've ever met who express nostalgia for the good ol' day of the Raj have been Indians - admittedly fairly senior army & police officers.

If anybody has any spare old DVDs of bagpipe music & marches then I can forward them to one such officer who lives in Simla & loves Kiplng, the skirl of the pipes & British army band music.

Sorry - I'm veering off topic.

I'll dig out my few Indian medals

[Ed_Haynes]

The British certainly don't appear to. The only people I've ever met who express nostalgia for the good ol' day of the Raj have been Indians - admittedly fairly senior army & police officers.

If anybody has any spare old DVDs of bagpipe music & marches then I can forward them to one such officer who lives in Simla & loves Kiplng, the skirl of the pipes & British army band music.

Sorry - I'm veering off topic.

I'll dig out my few Indian medals

Leigh, you meet some strange Indians.

Mine, as I said, are where they belong, over at http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2450 and in other topics in that sub-forum. My pre-1947 stuff is here. Or, you could just look in at http://sagongs.ipbhost.com/ .

Edited January 18, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Avitas]

It is funny that the queen is still the "head of state" for so many countries, yet has no real power, guess it's just "tradition" now but I for one would like to see the queen of England out of Canada's chain of command officially and make the "Commonwealth" awards a historical topic.

But back to topic and sorry if that was too political, sometimes I can't help myself! There are definitely some interesting Indian and Pakistan medals out there, and I wonder if anyone else has some obscure Commonwealth nations medals to show from ww2 or earlier era as these would go along nicely with this thread and be a help for newer collectors to see the wide range of nations that make up the "Commonwealth" niche of medal collecting. You don't see much on it, even on this site which is quite good on the British and Commonwealth side of things.

Cheers,

Pat

[leigh kitchen]

"It is funny that the queen is still the "head of state" for so many countries, yet has no real power, guess it's just "tradition" now but I for one would like to see the queen of England out of Canada's chain of command officially and make the "Commonwealth" awards a historical topic."

I doubt that you'll get much argument from the majority of Britons who wonder why we are still linked in this way to foreign countries.

(And if finally cutting the apron strings gets rid of that Canadian VC, then good on you, more speed & power to the elbow, etc, etc.)

My "commonwealth" type awards run no further than 4 or 5 KGV & KGVI IGSMs to Indians, lovely medals but I've done no research.

I read that one of the IGSMs, the KGV I think, was referred to withn the British army as "The Palmolive Medal", named after a famous brand of soap because of the ribbon colours - does anybody have an illustration of the Palmolive soap wrapper?