Fake Fake Orders and medals database

[JimZ]

[attachmentid=61432] [attachmentid=61433]

Downright junk if u ask me! Seems irresistable to fakers/copiers. But as I have not seen this 'golden' variation before I thought I'd post.

[JimZ]

I know that I say I would like to keep this thread as short of words as possible as pics usually speak louder than words can in this case. Also, an accumulation of pics will serve as a fast refernece database although somewhat messy in view of the order of posts....

However, just to stress that some items, even when not the best copy/fake on the market do fool a lot of buyers out there. Some of these are just naive or inexperienced, others believe that a missing original can be replaced by a less expensive gap filler.... and some sadly believe they are buying the original thing. Do not be fooled by a low starting price as inevitably someone pays good money for nothing!

And what I find more concerning are those good quality copies that are sold with documents and can be intentionally bought with the aim of putting them back on the market as originals. Once again...lots of buyers out there who will just lap up this stuff.

Like collections were built in a day anyways!!!

[JimZ]

[attachmentid=61744][attachmentid=61745]

[attachmentid=61747]

To be noted:

Reverse shows overlying pieces are not perfectly aligned.

Serial number is at 7 o'clock position as opposed to 5 o'clock position

Mint mark is too high and too heavily set

Enamel discoloration inconsistent with original white enemal

Nice 'touch' to have the screwpiece wear and tear from excess tightening.....

Once again....its out there for grabs... still a bargain even if its already bid to $525 with 4 days to go till auction close!!!!

[JimZ]

[attachmentid=61883] [attachmentid=61882]

Order of labour glory Variation 2?!!! Nice enamel but sorry, isn't something missing on the reverse?!!!! So far some think its worth a $100!!!

[Christian Zulus]

Jim,

the small additional gold plating at the av. - inside of the wreath of wheat - is also missing .

A ruined Labour Glory 3cl ....

Best regards

Christian

[JimZ]

Post #44 showed OSM 1,2 & 3. Although I did not follow the 3rd class, the 1st class sold for $162 and the 2nd class sold for $108. And what surprises is how people actually fight for these fakes! I cannot but stress the need for literature and research especially when you are starting out in order to ensure that your hard earned dollars (or Euros) are well spent!!!

[JimZ]

Yet again, post 53 shows a fake 2nd class Kutuzov which sold for the princely sum of EUR871 or USD1,140. I do not usely like to follow fakes once I have spotted them except the ones which I think might really fool some naive buyer. This auction goes to show the stakes that are involved when collectors do not know what they are doing. What a waste of very good money!!!

[JimZ]

My my...post 54 see the sale of that piece at 212.50!!

I am impressed if this is a rivetless original (which I do not believe there is any evidence of - please correct me if i am wrong!!! ).

I am otherwise very very depressed!

Jim

[JimZ]

Rick - any chance we could move thread this lock stock and barrel into the new fakes section pls?

Cheers.

Jim

[Jeff Garrison]

Currently there is an "Order of the Red Star" for sale on eB?y numbered 6893.

My question for the experts: Is it a fake?

At first I thought it was real but on second look I notice that the star seems to have flared edges, something strange going on around the screwpost base.

The mint mark looks "pretty good" but seems a little small compared to several others I have seen in photos. I don't have McDaniel's book so I cannot compare it.

The number seems good but haven't seen enough in this range to be sure.

The medallion on the front seems to be a bit large for this star since it seems to cover the top if the "Hammer & Sickle".

What do others think?

[JimZ]

Hi Jeff,

My comments and anyone please correct me if I am wrong would be as follows:

1) I do not like the mark around the screwpost base either. Weldmarks perhaps??!

2) Mondvor mark looks heavily set and too high up for observed pieces. If you draw a straight line from the base of the top arm of the star, the top of the mintmark should just about touch that imaginery line.

3) The serial number seems to be in the right range for the piece in question.

The enamel looks foggy but that could be the photo. The hammer and sickle do not look right particularly the handle of the sickle as well as the hammer head but that could once again be the photo or wear and tear. What I surely do not like about this piece is that the sickle and hammer on the edge of the reverse should have more definition on the outline of the reverse. They do not seem to have the right shape in my opinion. I also think that the base of the central shield does not look good and is not clean enough.

PMD picture shows a Monvor mint mark with "O" stamped into it. This one the also shows the same mark. My question is: is the "O" a standard mark for the Mondvor red stars in the range (PMD 6976 vs 6893 on the auction.... less than 100 ORSs away.....) or is it just an imitation of the PMD one??

I do not like this piece and I would not put any serious money on it. However someone does seem to think this order is worth $312. Of course, I may be wrong and someone else right, but I personally would not take that risk. Hope this helps.

Jim

PS - I also tend to take most "eB?y" auctions out of Germany or on the German site with lots more than just a pinch of salt!