Unidentified Sword

[James D.N.MacKenzie]

Dear Collectors

Can any of you help me to identify this sword? It has been engraved with the man's number and name and C.M.P., which stands for Cape Mounted Police, one of our early Police forces in South Africa. I am trying to find out whether it is a British made sword and what period it was used.

I will add more photos in the next messages.

Many thanks

James D.N.MacKenzie

SAM - Southern Africa Militaria

http://southernafricamilitaria.com

[James D.N.MacKenzie]

Photo 2

[James D.N.MacKenzie]

Photo 3

[James D.N.MacKenzie]

Photo 4

[KCLRPC]

Photo 4

hello

could you photograph the blade in closeup, just above the cross guard. to the best of my knowledge, all sword manufacturers marked their items in this area, as they are away from wear and tear I guess. if it is military issue, it can also tell you dates of issue etc. out of interest, although it is a very workmanlike piece, are there any markings/etching along the blade?

Nick

[James D.N.MacKenzie]

Hi Nick

It has a small stamp, W & CO, that is all, nothing on the blade at all.

I have also found out now that it is unlikely that it is Cape Mounted Police as there was never that amount of members in the force, the number is too high, and someone checked their roll and there is no Lake on the roll. Even more of a mystery now.

See attached photo of stamp.

Many thanks

James D.N.MacKenzie

SAM - Southern Africa Militaria

http://southernafricamilitaria.com

[Daniel Murphy]

The sword was made by Isaac Wester & Co of Solingen, Germany. They were in business c. 1820-1890. Hmm CMP. What about Corps of Military Police?

Dan

Edited November 15, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[James D.N.MacKenzie]

Hi Daniel

Thanks for your info.

Someone else suggested it was a Cavalry troopers sword made by Fritz Weyersberg of Solingen, pre-1883, but I have not been able to find any photo of their blade stamping so have not been able to confirm it.

Do you know for sure that Wester & Co used this type of stamp? Would like to confirm it.

Finding the sword in South Africa, and having the engraving in English, I assumed it was the Cape Mounted Police. Our military police are called the South African Corps of Military Police and don't think they ever had a mounted group, so am sure it is not them.

Someone else suggested Ceylon Municipal Police, but I have no knowledge of this unit or what swords, if any, they were issued.

Best wishes

James D.N.MacKenzie

SAM - Southern Africa Militaria

http://southernafricamilitaria.com

[David Critchley]

Its a mid 19th C Italian cavalry pattern sword I believe

David

[James D.N.MacKenzie]

Hi David

Many thanks for your information.

Do you have a book reference for it perhaps?

Cheers

James D.N.MacKenzie

SAM - Southern Africa Militaria

http://southernafricamilitaria.com

[David Critchley]

Hi David

Many thanks for your information.

Do you have a book reference for it perhaps?

Cheers

James D.N.MacKenzie

SAM - Southern Africa Militaria

http://southernafricamilitaria.com

I want to say it's the 1860 pattern James, but I need to check something like Wagner's "Cut and Thrust Weapons" There's also a Danish sabre of around the same period with a similar guard that I've seen at auction. I'll try and tie it down exactly when I get home.

The main difference between the two is the grip backpiece, the other has a French style half backpiece, but I can't remember which is which at this precise moment.

[J Temple-West]

Hi James,

Having done a quick search, as you do..I came up with this example by the same maker. Not much help, I know but the style may help in at least giving you a country of origin.

It's described as an Artillery sword. No maker mentioned.

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[James D.N.MacKenzie]

Hi David and John

Thanks, appreciate any help.

I also did a search on the net and found the same article. Would they be 100% accurate in that article or is it possible it is another manufacturer with a surname starting with a W?

Cheers

James D.N.MacKenzie

SAM - Southern Africa Militaria

http://southernafricamilitaria.com

[David Critchley]

Hi David and John

Thanks, appreciate any help.

I also did a search on the net and found the same article. Would they be 100% accurate in that article or is it possible it is another manufacturer with a surname starting with a W?

Cheers

James D.N.MacKenzie

SAM - Southern Africa Militaria

http://southernafricamilitaria.com

Hi James, I've looked through some old auction catalogues at home and examples with the full backpiece like yours are listed as "Danish mid 19th C" no pattern date I'm afraid.

I agree the W could stand for Weyersberg, a Solingen firm that later made blades under contract for the British 1885 cavalry sword but my 85 has the mark Weyersberg, Kirschbaum & CiE Solingen on the forte.

[Tom Y]

Hi James, I've looked through some old auction catalogues at home and examples with the full backpiece like yours are listed as "Danish mid 19th C" no pattern date I'm afraid.

I agree the W could stand for Weyersberg, a Solingen firm that later made blades under contract for the British 1885 cavalry sword but my 85 has the mark Weyersberg, Kirschbaum & CiE Solingen on the forte.

Gebr?der Weyersburg was a separate entity til their amalgamation with Kirschbaum in 1883.

[James D.N.MacKenzie]

Hi Tom and David

Thanks again.

Cheers

James D.N.MacKenzie

SAM - Southern Africa Militaria

http://southernafricamilitaria.com

[Daniel Murphy]

Yes, Wester used this mark "W & CO." on many of their swords. Had the sword been made by Weyersburg, it would have undoubtedly had the crowned head trademark. Many of Wester's swords were made for the English market I might add.

Dan

[James D.N.MacKenzie]

Hi Daniel

Many thanks for that.

Cheers

James D.N.MacKenzie

SAM - Southern Africa Militaria

http://southernafricamilitaria.com