Bavarian 6 medal Group

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gentlemen,

may I have your opinions on this bar please:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ORIGINAL-GERMAN-BAVA...1QQcmdZViewItem

Many thanks,

Kevin in Deva.

[Guest Rick Research]

Please POST any eBay question scans. Without an image-- especially long after a specific sale is gone, we have nothing to look at but dead, useless threads that have to be deleted rather than serving any instructional purpose.

Now, the item in question:

The seller's microscopic scans, combined and cropped of all that useless black plush background (how people expect to SELL with scans like this is beyond me)

And enlarged, which with my primitive technology loses image focus which was fuzzy to begin with:

Now, from these, the ribbons are clearly old and tender silk with wear. It is a classic Bavarian style of mounting. There has obviously been a second, lower battle bar removed from the 1870 medal. Presence of the military 1905 Jubilee indicates that this old veteran was a former officer. Absence of a Reserve-Landwehr decoration suggests that he left the army as a junior regular officer.

Just as a battle bar was removed from the 1870, I would think that an 1870 EK2 and its jubilee oakleaves was removed from this, swapped out by a 1914 which would seem HIGHLY unlikely for a long retired junior officer/civil servant.

Otherwise the bar appears to be in wonderful condition, and with the combination of ?? 1870 EK2, 1905 military AND 40 years civil service cross, may well be traceable. I'll go look, but as is standard operating procedure, will NOT reveal any name discovered until after the sale is over.

[Tom Y]

Isn't 1st place rather odd for the Luitpold?

Edited December 17, 2006 by Tom Y

[Guest Rick Research]

OK, alas the Bavarian Milit?r Handb?cher do NOT list the 40 Years Civil Service, so the 1913 edition (cross created in 1911) didn't help.

From the EK2 1870, 1905, 1870, and 1897, there WERE four possible

a Leutnant dL aD born in 1848 whose 1908 Orders Alamanc (so that doesn't help with the 40, either) shows a BLD2 never entered in the Military Handbooks;

and three retired Oberleutnants, only one of whom shows any civilian occupation in the Orders Alamanac, a pharmacist born in 1849. The other two were born in 1837 and 1841-- despite which they had no 1866 service! Given that the 40 years was granted for retirees, and for a range of services that might have included things as far off what we consider "civil service" as a lifetime as a church warden, any of the four remain possible, even without listed civil service occupations.

So I'd say "possible" indeed-- but requiring an 1870 EK2 and 1895 oakleaves to restore. Some OAF "plucked" this wonderful bar of its "jewel" and left what that idiot considered the "junk" behind.

[Tom Y]

He has an Elefantorden too. Same small scan with a busy but classy background. Have asked for larger scans of front & rear. I'm not interested myself, but thought I'd help out anyone who might be.

[dond]

So I'd say "possible" indeed-- but requiring an 1870 EK2 and 1895 oakleaves to restore. Some OAF "plucked" this wonderful bar of its "jewel" and left what that idiot considered the "junk" behind.

I happen to have an 1870er with oaks laying around. I will give it a shot since Kevin is not bidding on it. Can a couple of members pm me on what they think the reasonable value of the bar is in its current state so I can develop my bid.

Thanks

Edited December 17, 2006 by dond

[Guest Rick Research]

Wups. My bad! "Surviving" bar is "Villiers."

Well, see the pinned thread on 1870 battle bars entitlements:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3794

and you will see that NO Bavarian units were so entitled. Which makes me think that Mister Monkey Paws--whoever and whenever-- after peeling off the two that were supposed to be in there, stuck in one of the new FAKES thinking that a "high end" bar would encourage those who saw what it said in the Micro Scan to bid UP on the whole shebang.

Can almost guarantee that the battle clasp is fake, since there would be no reason to stick a real one of that scarcity that just happened to be lying around loose on there.

Bid as if no battle bar at all.

It's a tricksy world, out there.

[dond]

?330.00. to rich for me.