US Army Dress Blue Tunic

[Thierry]

Bonjour,

Some questions about a US Army Dress Parade Blue Uniform.

- Which are decorations and attributes which one can raise on the jacket ?

- Is this jacket correct ?

- Which types of support for ribbonbar ?

- Which types of belts ?

Thanks in advance .

Thierry

BONNES FETES

[Thierry]

.../...

Edited December 27, 2006 by Thierry

[Thierry]

.../...

[Thierry]

.../...

[David S]

Don't waste your money on this, somebody made it up!

Many, many things wrong !!

[Thierry]

Don't waste your money on this, somebody made it up!

Many, many things wrong !!

This is exactly this that I ask!!!

Which things to remove and which things to put. ...

[Dave Danner]

Inter alia,

1. No combat command loops (the green fuzzies) on the shoulder straps of blues.

2. No General Staff badge for an enlisted man.

3. No third-award CIB. That would indicate service in World War II, Korea and Vietnam (or even more fantastically, the Korean War, any conflict from Vietnam through Kosovo, and OEF/OIF).

4. No Grimes has received a DSC since World War II.

5. The pin above the RVN jump wings on the right side is for the 173rd Airborne Brigade. This is where one's regimental affiliation is indicated. The 173rd Airborne is not a regiment.

6. The insignia on the shoulder straps is for the 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment, a component of the 82nd Airborne.

7. A veteran of airborne/airmobile operations in Vietnam without one or more Air Medals? Give me a break.

8. A sergeant major with a Legion of Merit but without one or more MSMs?

9. Kuwaiti Kuwait Liberation Medal, but no Saudi Kuwait Liberation Medal.

10. Precedence of the Vietnamese awards is wrong.

11. A CSM in the 1990s would have been a junior enlisted guy in Vietnam, and wouldn't have earned all those Vietnamese medals, especially the National Order.

12. The RVN Special Service Medal was for clandestine missions and according to my references was not authorized for wear by US personnel.

13. Is there an arrowhead on the Vietnam Service Medal?

14. I can't tell, but I don't see any campaign stars on the Southwest Asia Service Medal.

That's just a start...

[Mike Dwyer]

Dave,

I hadn't said anything since it's been over 16 years since I left the Army, but isn't his US and crossed rifles canted at the wrong angle? If I recall correctly the corner of the U should be lower than the corner of the S and the right rifle butt should be lower than the left rifle butt.

[Thierry]

Inter alia,

2. No General Staff badge for an enlisted man.

3. No third-award CIB. That would indicate service in World War II, Korea and Vietnam (or even more fantastically, the Korean War, any conflict from Vietnam through Kosovo, and OEF/OIF).

5. The pin above the RVN jump wings on the right side is for the 173rd Airborne Brigade. This is where one's regimental affiliation is indicated. The 173rd Airborne is not a regiment.

6. The insignia on the shoulder straps is for the 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment, a component of the 82nd Airborne.

7. A veteran of airborne/airmobile operations in Vietnam without one or more Air Medals? Give me a break.

8. A sergeant major with a Legion of Merit but without one or more MSMs?

9. Kuwaiti Kuwait Liberation Medal, but no Saudi Kuwait Liberation Medal.

13. Is there an arrowhead on the Vietnam Service Medal?

That's just a start...

Thanks Dane for reponse

But;

- The Military Actions covered by the CIB : WWII, Korean War, Laos, Vietnam, Dominican Republic, Koran DMZ, El Salvador, Grenada, Panama, Persian Gulf War, Somalia, (and perhaps Irak and Afghanisthan War).

- For the Army staff Identification Badge : The badge is authorized for officers and E-9s assigned to authorized positions at HQ, department of the Army (Chief of Staff Regulation 672-5), Sergeants Major were authorized to be awarded the badge effective 30 September 1978.

- An arrowhead on the Vietnam Service Medal, YES (The bronze arrowhead is authorized for members of the 173rd Airborne Brigade who actually participated in a landing in the vicinity of Katum, RVN, between the hours of 0900-0907 on February 22, 1967),

- An arrowhead on the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal (-Members of the 1st and 2nd Battalions, 75th Rangers, who participated in a landing onto Fury DZ, Point Salinas Airfield in Grenada on October 25, 1983, -Rio Hato Airfield, Panama (Parachute), December 20, 1989 from 0112 to 0115, -Torrijo-Tocumen Airport, Panama (Parachute), December 20, 1989, from 0113 to 0115, -Pacora River Bridge, Panama (Helicopter), December 20, 1989, from 0040 to 0054, -Fort Amador, Panama (Helicopter), December 20, 1989, from 0100 to 0230, -Colon, Panama (Amphibious), December 20, 1989, from 1315 to 1500, -Gamboa, Panama (Helicopter), December 20, 1989, from 0100 to 1500, -Cerro Tigre, Panama (Helicopter), December 20, 1989, from 0100 to 0104, -El Renacer, Panama (Amphibious), December 20, 1989, from 0100 to 0104)

Crdl

Thierry

[Ed_Haynes]

[Dave Danner]

- The Military Actions covered by the CIB : WWII, Korean War, Laos, Vietnam, Dominican Republic, Koran DMZ, El Salvador, Grenada, Panama, Persian Gulf War, Somalia, (and perhaps Irak and Afghanisthan War).

You do not get a CIB each time there is a war or other action for which it is authorized.

From AR 600-8-22:

f. Second and third awards of the CIB are indicated by superimposing 1 and 2 stars respectively, centered at the top of the badge between the points of the oak wreath. To date, a separate award of the CIB has been authorized for qualified Soldiers in the following qualifying periods:

(1) World War II (7 December 1941 to 3 September 1945)

(2) The Korean Conflict (27 June 1950 to 27 July 1953).

(3) The Republic of Vietnam Conflict. Service in the Republic of Vietnam conflict (2 March 1961 to 28 March 1973) combined with qualifying service in Laos; Dominican Republic; Korea on the DMZ; El Salvador; Grenada; Joint Security Area, Panmunjom, Korea; Panama; Southwest Asia Conflict; and Somalia, regardless of whether a Soldier has served one or multiple tours in any or all of these areas. The Republic of Vietnam Conflict Era officially terminated on 10 March 1995.

(4) War on Terrorism (Afghanistan, Operation ENDURING FREEDOM) and (Iraq, Operation IRAQI FREEDOM).

When the CIB was authorized for Grenada, the Army did not authorize a second award star for those who already had a CIB from Vietnam. This policy was maintained for the subsequent smaller conflicts of the 1980s and 1990s, which generally didn't involve too many Vietnam vets at the infantry battalion level anyway. After 2001, the Army revisited the policy, and made 1995 the termination of (3) above.

So someone who received a CIB in any of the conflicts in (3) would receive a star if he qualified for the CIB in Afghanistan or Iraq. But the only way to get a second star would be to also have been in either of (1) or (2).

All that fruit salad speaks only to conflicts in category (3). No Korean service, no Afghanistan service, no Iraq service. No 2nd award CIB. No dice.

[Ed_Haynes]

Isn't the greater challenge to find anything RIGHT about this presentation of perverse rampant fantasy?

Edited December 28, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[Dave Danner]

- For the Army staff Identification Badge : The badge is authorized for officers and E-9s assigned to authorized positions at HQ, department of the Army (Chief of Staff Regulation 672-5), Sergeants Major were authorized to be awarded the badge effective 30 September 1978.

Technically possible, highly unlikely, especially given the "story" the uniform is supposedly trying to tell of a combat NCO, a battalion CSM type, not a Pentagon staff puke (no offense to all you Pentagon staff pukes out there). I also find the OSD staff abdge a little inconsistent as well.

[Thierry]

Bonjour,

Thank-you Dave, for these information, that will allow me to modify this held one.

Dane, do you know soldiers having a CIB 3rd or 4th awards ?

Crdl

Thierry

[ehrentitle]

Bonjour,

Thank-you Dave, for these information, that will allow me to modify this held one.

Dane, do you know soldiers having a CIB 3rd or 4th awards ?

Crdl

Thierry

Thierry - Talking from my limited experience as an Infantryman nearly 20 years ago...the CIB 3rd Award was so rare that the National Infantry Museum at Fort Benning had an area dedicated to it with names of recipients on little engraved plaques. Although I've see badges for the 4th Award they were never officially presented. The Institute of Heraldry designed CIBs for up to the 8th Award if I recall (5th-8th were gold versions). There are an excellent series of articles on the CIB in the January and Febuary 1995 Militaria Magazine that was published in France if you can still get you hands on one.

Edited December 29, 2006 by ehrentitle

[ehrentitle]

Here is a bit on the 3rd Award from the Feb 05 Militaria Magazine - The possibility of awarding the CIB for a third time arose in 1963. On February 7th 1963, the Secretary of the Army Cyrus R. Vance authorized its award, retroactive to March 1st 1961, to the American military advisors in Vietnam. Furthur opportunities are rare as the operations in with the United States took part are not considered full fledged wars. Indeed, since the end of the Vietnam War, the interventions in Grenada, Panama and the Gulf are considered as one and the same war, meaning that only one award can be made. Prior to the Gulf War only 230 American soldiers had been awarded the CIB with 2 stars.

[Thierry]

Merci Ehrentitle for all importantes infos.

Crdl

Thierry

Bonnes Fetes...

[Dave Danner]

Prior to the Gulf War only 230 American soldiers had been awarded the CIB with 2 stars.

The guy on the left is one of them. Ted Mataxis, a good friend and mentor of mine who died earlier this year. He commanded a company and a battalion in World War II, a regiment in Korea, and an advisory mission, a brigade and a division in Vietnam, among numerous other assignments.

[Dave Danner]

I should add that Gen. Mataxis was rather proud of his CIB with 2 stars, far more than any other decoration he had received in his 32-year career, as it was the one that you earned in the mud with the troops. He always called it his "Perfect Attendance Award".

[ehrentitle]

The guy on the left is one of them. Ted Mataxis, a good friend and mentor of mine who died earlier this year. He commanded a company and a battalion in World War II, a regiment in Korea, and an advisory mission, a brigade and a division in Vietnam, among numerous other assignments.

Dave - Interesting, there is still a Ted Mataxis serving in the military as an officer, I believe he is Quartermaster. Maybe a grandson? Kevin

Edited December 29, 2006 by ehrentitle

[ehrentitle]

Merci Ehrentitle for all importantes infos.

Crdl

Thierry

Bonnes Fetes...

Thierry - No problem. I used to make a special trip to the Economat des Armees in Berlin to pick up a copy of Militaria each month. I couldn't read French, but the photos were so good. There was a double issue (No 22/23) from June-Aug 1987 that has a huge number of color photos of airborne uniforms, equipment, patches, badges, etc... Kevin

[Dave Danner]

Dave - Interesting, there is still a Ted Mataxis serving in the military as an officer, I believe he is Quartermaster. Maybe a grandson? Kevin

His son retired as a Lt. Colonel and a battalion commander in 3rd Special Forces Group (Airborne) in the mid-1990s. I think there was a grandson in a commissioning program around then, but I didn't know the rest of the family that well.

[Thierry]

The guy on the left is one of them. Ted Mataxis, a good friend and mentor of mine who died earlier this year. He commanded a company and a battalion in World War II, a regiment in Korea, and an advisory mission, a brigade and a division in Vietnam, among numerous other assignments.

Thanks Ted

Do you have a bio (Service and decorations) on Brigadier General Ted Mataxis ?

Thanks in advance

Thierry

[Dave Danner]

Thanks Ted

Do you have a bio (Service and decorations) on Brigadier General Ted Mataxis ?

Thanks in advance

Thierry

Not a complete one handy. He was born in 1917, commissioned from ROTC in 1940, a lieutenant colonel by 1945. War sometimes tends to speed up promotions. He kept his rank after the war when others were being reduced to their permanent grades, but didn't get his colonel's eagle until Korea and remained a colonel for well over a decade after that.

He commanded 2nd Battalion, 276th Infantry, 70th Infantry Division as a major during Operation Nordwind, the German counteroffensive in Lorraine in the winter of 1944-45. After the war, he served in the occupation and was involved in the oral history project debriefing German officers on their combat experiences against the Soviets. He attended the Indian Defence Staff College and then served as an observer with UNMOGIP before deploying to Korea.

In Korea he commanded the 17th Infantry Regiment, 7th Infantry Division.

In 1959, he took command of the 1st Airborne Battle Group, 505th Infantry, 8th Infantry Division. This was during the "Pentomic" era when Army division were organized into 5 battlegroups rather than brigades or regiments.

In Vietnam he was Senior Advisor to ARVN II Corps and then commander, 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division. He returned to the states as Assistant Division Commander, 82nd Airborne Division, in 1965. He was Army Section Chief, Military Assistance Advisory Group, Empire of Iran, from 1968 to 1970 and then back to Vietnam in 1970 as Assistant Division Commander and then acting Division Commander of the Americal Division. He then went to Cambodia as Chief of the Joint Military Equipment Team before retiring in 1972.

I remember him telling me he was assigned as a speechwriter/aide for General Maxwell D. Taylor, but I don't recall if that was when Taylor was Army Chief of Staff or Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. I think it was the latter.

Here is the "Ordenskisse" from his funeral:

[Thierry]

Thanks Dave.

And Badges (CIB, etc...).

Legion of Merit (2 Bronze Oak Leaf),

Bronze Star (V + 3 Bronze Oak Leaf ?),

Air Medal (V+ ?),

Army Commendation (V + 3 Bronze Oak Leaf ),

Purple Heart (Bronze Oak Leaf),

RVN War Cross ( 2 Palm, 2 Gold Star),

Officer RVN DSC,

RVN 1 class,

???,

???;

EAM Campaign (3 Bronze Star ?),

Occupation Medal (? Claps),

National Defense (1 Bronze Oak Leaf ?),

Korean (3 Bronze Star),

VN Service (8 Bronze Star ?).

Crdl

Thierry