Pour le Merite

[Daniel Cole]

Doesn't anyone find it curious that a 1957 S&L PLM can be attributed to Eduard Ritter von Schleich when he died in 1947? Some how I am not making the connection there.

[Rod]

Geeeesshhh what I can of worms my innocent question prompted!!

Rod

[Tim Tezer]

Marshall is right. The supposed "Von Schleich" PLM above is apparently a post-1957 S&L example, and definitely not an awarded piece. The second one posted by jonightflyer is not a Wagner/Friedlander, or a Godet. So I would call it a copy, but it seems very nicely made and may be pre-1945. I don't recognize it as any of the known mass-produced knock-offs.

As for Der Rittmeister's "most prized piece" I can only say that I hope he didn't mortgage the house for it.

Tim

[Steve Russell]

I love the one jonightflyer posted.

It certainly isn't one of the run of fakes from Austria or Spain. Enamel and workmanship are right in there with all the other good pieces. And as Les has pointed out in other posts and confirmed here by Tim, the connected letters do appear on known examples prior to the S&Ls.

The S&Ls are such a give away with their blunt eagle legs, that the connected letters should not be a disqualifyer or an automatic S&L piece. The blunt leg versions are late pieces. This one looks very, very good.

What a 'tall' story on von Schleich! Interesting too, that most of Der Ritt's pieces are Rothes. I've not seen one yet that would fall in line with anyting that Tim, Les or jonightflyer list here. Steve

[jonightflyer]

For another good example, see: Kilduff, P. 1979, 'Germany's Last Knight Of The Air - The Memoirs Of Major Carl Degelow', page 183, Fig. bottom left.

Clear, b&w close up photograph, of the officially awarded PLM to Leutnant Josef Jacobs showing the u and r connected at top and bottom. (Enamel chipped at centre of cross).

[STP]

Very interesting thread... could you guys comment on this one. (Sorry if it has been covered previously).

German States

PRUSSIA, Pour-le-Merite

Cross in GOLD and enamels, hollow version, 1916-18. Very good details and quality, unmarked. Mounted on a full length of original neck ribbon. Enamels without any imperfections, in extremely fine condition. Excellent condition and quality, rare. (Sold with expertise of authenticity, D. Niemann).

Another forum has suggested that it is a genuine Wagner but why no mark and weren't the genuine gold pieces all pie slice suspensions?

This is a good piece. but the dates should refer to 1914-late 1916. She's a beaut. Very nice.

STP

[STP]

Here is a shot of the silver-gilt PLM with connected letters that Les refers to:

The detail on this example is pretty stunning. Somewhere I think I have a photo of a similar piece sold by Detlev Niemann, but I have allowed my photo collection to slip into a poor state of organization, and I can't figure out which disk it's on. I'll see if I can locate it.

Tim

This also is a good piece. Very nice. The silver-gilts though don't present the same glitter as our hollow-gold friends.

STP

[STP]

Another forum has suggested that it is a genuine Wagner but why no mark and weren't the genuine gold pieces all pie slice suspensions?

Gold 1914-16 PLMs were not all marked. Stamping was not used for hollow-gold pieces when they were marked but rather a scoring or scratching of the mark. Stamping would shatter the piece. Gold presentation pieces featured the Baroque style suspensions for the most part, contrary to the myth that they should all or most have pie-wedge suspensions. Pie-wedge are the Godet pieces, utilized by recipients during both the gold and silver-gilt periods of 1914-18. There also exists a very rare hollow-silver transitional pieces, these being even rarer than the gold PLMs, as they were produced after the Kaiser's decree to switch from gold to silver but before the PLM went to a solid silver-gilt process. Sorry I missed the question on the first pass.

STP