Order of the Red Eagle 4th Class

[Sal]

Hey all.....I got this in the mail the other day....first off hoping it is legit....i think it is but the suspension looks oddly flat vice a ball.

Anyway, I have a question about the order in general with respect to swords. Is appears there are locations that look like there were swords through it but hae been removed and ground down. Two areas have that appearance and the other 2 areas look completely ground down and polished to an extent. Would that be an indication it is an illegitemate piece or is there a posisbility they were namufactured with a set up for swords in the event theyh were authorized....in other words, to save the time and expense.

Closer shot of the eagle

I will get some better pics of the areas in question but for now these are additional from the auction...I appreciate any insight.

Thanks

Tony

Edited March 7, 2007 by Sal

[Daniel Cole]

It looks good to me. I would think the holes you are wondering about is where the pins go hiolding on the centers. I had a 3rd class once and that was the case. I don't recall on the 4ths I have had.

Are there any maker marks?

[Sal]

It looks good to me. I would think the holes you are wondering about is where the pins go hiolding on the centers. I had a 3rd class once and that was the case. I don't recall on the 4ths I have had.

Are there any maker marks?

Thanks Dan....I appreciate that. I never thought of that point about the centers. I cannot find any marks on it but I compared the eagle with the series of variations on Andreas' site and it looks like a 4th type Wagner.....again I am certainly not expert, but am happy to know it seems good. Thanks very much

T

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello Tony:

I hope that all is well in the "sandbox". Hopefully, the rain is less frequent by now and the lovely mud the consistency of peanut butter is drying-up (of course it is like concrete when dry!).

The RAO is genuine without a doubt. The suspension has undoubtedly been repaired at some point, but this is not a great detractor.

The sword question is an interesting one. If the piece had swords they would have been screwed into the center at the points noted (for pieces through the colonial era, I believe that this was the case as opposed to soldering). So, there would be threaded holes at 10:00 o'clock, 2:00 o'clock, 4:00 o'clock, and at 8:00 o'clock (all approximate, but you get the idea). Usually, the pins that hold the centers in are two (2) in number and 180 degrees apart. If the swords (gold or gilded-silver) broke off, you would have a stub left that looks like a pin.

In summary, four (4) holes in the center: the piece had swords in the past. Two (2) holes in the center: the piece never had swords.

Stay safe!

"SPM"

[Sal]

SPM....hey thanks. Yeah ya know....just as soon as we get dried out from that junk....it rains in the night JUST enough to make it a disaster the next morning......I am telling ya if I never see rain here again it wont be soon enough.....but I think we're in for a hot hot one this summer...(surprise).

I think you and Dan are on the right path. I took a closer look after his and your comments. It does look like 2 pins....the other areas that I thought appear like they were ground down, may just be finishing. Problem is that they do look like a broken pin as you describe as possible broken off set of swords.

I'll gin up some better pics of the badge and post them.....thanks for the insight

Tony