The result of today's fleamarket - PLM question

[Robert Noss]

Today was the giant fleamarket in Munich on the place where the Oktoberfest is being celebrated.

I was on my feet 7 hours and have not seen all. But it was a perfect day.

Here is what I got today (only 1 book is missing) :

Some photos in more details:

Pfarrer Theophil Witzel, Feldgeistlicher der 22. Inf.Div.

Back with dedication:

......

[Robert Noss]

Now the PLM-winner Maximilian von Knoch ???

Back also with dedication:

And an earlier photo of the PLM-winner

......

[Robert Noss]

Bavarian infantry Leib-Regiment ( Kgl. bayer. Inf.-Leibregiment )

One with the Gibraltar cuff-title:

Death-card of a Leiber

And a lot of other photos and postcards.

I could need some help with the PLM-winner, his right name and more infos.

Robert

[Chip]

Wonderful photos Robert. Congratulations!

Your CdV of from M?nchen of the Einj?hrig Freiwilliger is not from the Inf.Leib Regiment. The shoulder strap shows a small crown with a royal monogram beneath. The Leibers only had a crown. Also, there are no Litzen on the collars and cuffs as a Leiber would have had. I suspect he is from the 1., 2. or 3. I.R., all of which wore a monogram. A close-up of the shoulder strap might solve the mystery.

Chip

[Glenn J]

Robert,

char. Oberst Maximilian v. Knoch 10.09.69-28.01.28. Awarded the OPLM on 15.08.18 as commander of RFAR 10. very nice photo!

Regards

Glenn

[Guest Rick Research]

I think when "your father" sent his child (teenager?) a photo of nhimself wearing a mourning band on his sleeve and saying "be a real German" in February 1919...

there must have been something quite interesting going on! The later note identifies him as "father in law."

I'm surprised to see Father Witzel in the overwhelmingly Protestant 22nd Division, XI Corps!

Good haul as always!

[Chip]

I don't believe that the religious composition of the divisions had anything to do with the assignment of Milit?rgeistlichen. For the Prussians, at least, there was a standard number of Catholic and Protestant clergy assigned. The numbers of Catholic vs Protestant clergy remained roughly equal throughout the war, even in the Bavarian army, which had, by war's end, 225 Catholic priests and 280 Protestant clergy. The Jewish troops had only 30 Rabbis by 1918, but then they contributed only about 1% of the army's total.

Chip

Edited April 21, 2007 by Chip

[Robert Noss]

Thanks for the infos about von Knoch, so I did read the name right.

Chip, You are of course right, the CDV is not showing a real Leiber. Sometimes I think all crowns are Leibers. Anyway it's a nice shot.

May I post some more questions ?

After examining most of the stuff I got yesterday, I found some more photos that make me wonder.

First is this one:

More details:

And the back:

Aren't these french artillery troops ? The german writing says that they are in the barracks at St.Mihiel, well. But the postcard was printed by a german publisher in Dresden. A pre-war postcard, written by a german soldier during the war.

.....

[Robert Noss]

....

Together with the postcard above came this portrait:

What a strange cap. It looks like a button on the collar has been removed.

Is he german ?

There is a group of more artillery photos.

One is this:

Quite interesting is the caption on the back:

" Hidden 24cm Long barrel gun from "Panzerkreuzer Prinz Heinrich" , may 1917 "

What I noticed is the soldier in the leather jacket......

[Robert Noss]

... here:

What type of uniform is this ? What's on his collar tabs ?

He also appears on another photo:

This time, there seem to be no collar insignia

......

[Robert Noss]

Last one is this one:

Also from the lot of artillery photos.

On which occasions did the german troops wear goggles ? He is not a pilot, maybe a motorcyclist ?

I hope I do not bore You with my questions.

Kind regards

Robert

Edited April 22, 2007 by Robert Noss

[Chip]

Robert,

Your man in the leather jacket is a Kraftfahrer. The insignia on the collar is a side view of an automobile. Here is an example from a friend's collection.

[Chip]

Robert,

Goggles could be worn by any soldier, depending on their duties. For instance, infantry that are trained for mountainous regions were often issued with Sonnenbrille. The goggles in your photo do not appeare to be tinted, so they are probably just wind goggles. I am not sure what type of unit this man would have been in, though I suspect the visored cap would indicate that he is not in a front line unit.

Chip

[Chris Liontas]

Are the artillery guys German or French? The Kepi's they are wearing look a lot like the 1880 - 1910 uniformed French troops. Can anyone place the Artillery piece or the kason?

[KeithB]

Are the artillery guys German or French? The Kepi's they are wearing look a lot like the 1880 - 1910 uniformed French troops. Can anyone place the Artillery piece or the kason?

The gun looks very much like the Mle 1897 75mm field gun (aka the 'French 75').

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gents

please excuse what might sound like a stupid question with regards the top picture in Post

Now the PLM-winner Maximilian von Knoch ???

Is the addition of crown and swords to the EK Ribbon an unofficial one?

or does it signify some other Hohenzollen award??

Kevin in Deva

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello Kevin:

Not a stupid question at all. Although I have not researched the statutes regarding this, recipients of the Prussian Hohenzollern House Order with swords always wore a small device with crown and swords on the ribbon to distinguish it from the EKII.

Isn't it odd how the EKII which became such a VERY COMMON award relatively early in the war outranked the HHO in importance!. Of course this precedence was based upon tradition and the statutes regarding this which were instituted when the EK really did mean something more. Of course too, early on, the EK was actually considered an Order (although no nobility, titles, etc. followed).

Best regards,

"SPM"