Republic of Ireland Rare Irish Merchant Marine medal 1939 - 45

[Kev in Deva]

Halo Gents

just spotted online:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Irish-Merchant-Ma...1QQcmdZViewItem

If genuine then another rare piece. For some reason the rear view picture is extremely small!!

Asking seller for a larger picture of rear, Will watch with interest

Kevin in Deva

[Jacky]

Why has he three times the same clasp??

[Kev in Deva]

Why has he three times the same clasp??

Hallo Jacky

the clasp / bar represent periods of service.

Medal without bar to men who served on Irish Registered Ships for at least six months, but less than two years, (299 issued).

Medal with one bar for two years service, (122 issued.)

Medal with two bars for 4 years service, (34 issued.)

Medal with three bars for six years service between September 3, 1939 to March 31st, 1946. (58 Issued.)

There was a special certificate for men who served less than six months.

As the bar is identical to the bars on the other Irish "Emergency Service" * Medals (Army, Reserve, Air-Raid, Red Cross etc) its very easy for bars to be added to a Merchant Marine Medal to upgrade it.

Compounding the problem is the fact none of the medals issued were named, in the absence of irrefutable provenance, collectors should treat multi-bar medals with a good deal of caution

* Ireland was Neutural in WW2 however her Merchant ships were attacked from the air, by sea-mines and by U-boats,

incuring casualties**, WW2 is known in Ireland as "The Emergency".

*+ 16 ships were lost, and although no more than 800 men were in service at any one time, 135 were killed and 14 wounded.

They also managed to rescue 511 men of all nationalities in the course of their journeys.

This medal for the Merchant Marine while similar in many respects to the other Emergency Service medals, but was a gift from the Department of Industry and Commerce, rather than the Department of Defence.

Kevin in Deva.

Edited April 23, 2007 by Kev in Deva

[Paul L Murphy]

Kevin,

I am sure you know this already but you need to see how the reverse of the ribbon is sewn to see if it is original or if bars have been added later to create a multi-bar award. Having said that, even with no bars this is still a very scarce medal.

Cheers,

Paul

[Ceallach]

Gentleman,

I agree, a view of the back is a must. This new listing has the same photos as one that ended a couple of weeks back and sold for GBP 2,250. In the case of the latter I am still waiting on a ribbon back image !

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...p;rd=1&rd=1

An Ceallach

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gents,

Medal Comparison Pictures:

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Auction Medal from seller: "billysmarket" 18. April 07. sold for GB 2,250.01

fdb8_1

Current Auction Picture from seller: "ireldna"

fb73_1

Rear view: "billysmarket":

fdfa_1

Rear view: "ireldna"

fe02_1 00b6_1

Suspension detail and Designer name detail shown on the original auction by "billysmarket".

The seller "ireldna" has not posted pictures of the suspension or Maker details on their auction!!!

Notice also the similarity with the picture titles / numbers, except 1.

I got an email reply via ebay that close-up pictures of the reverse would be sent today by seller "ireldna"

Call me paranoid but, methinks something is a bit fishy about this second auction

Kevin in Deva

Edited April 24, 2007 by Kev in Deva

[Ulsterman]

By the way-what do you think of the "1916" group on eBay?

[Paul L Murphy]

By the way-what do you think of the "1916" group on eBay?

Can you post a link to it, I cannot find it ??

[Ulsterman]

I note she sells a lot of normal stuff and buys romance novels;I am looking at the buckle.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1921-1971-IRISH-WAR-OF...VQQcmdZViewItem

Edited April 24, 2007 by Ulsterman

[Ulsterman]

Also, not that I like this stuff, there's a nice 1930s Eire army officers' cap for 90 pounds on eBay. The first one I remember seeing since wallis and Wallis had one in 1978.

[Kev in Deva]

I note she sells a lot of normal stuff and buys romance novels;I am looking at the buckle.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1921-1971-IRISH-WAR-OF...VQQcmdZViewItem

Hallo Ulsterman

thanks for the link, while the buckle probably has a connection to the old IRA I feel its post 1916 Rising, the Easter Rising was a hastely planned event, and not sanctioned by all the IRA leaders, I dont think they were making Buckles with reference to the Provisional Government prior to the Rising, I have never heard mention of Buckles for uniforms at that time, seeing as the British & R.I.C, were very active in searching for IRA members the buckle would have been a dead give away.

The medal pictures are not great on her auctions, the detail is poor, as for reference to her Grandfather (who she will show a picture of, but not mention the family name ?? why not, there is no stigma attached to the men of this time.)

Kevin in Deva

[Ceallach]

I guess the arm was twisted - items are no longer for sale.

The 1921 medal does not have a Comrac bar which in most cases would indicate that the recipient was not engaged in armed combat. The picture of her grandfather may be misleading - holding the iconic weapon but attired in what appears to be an Irish Free State uniform. The belt buckle is not 1916 issue as hinted in the blurb, more likely post truce.

An Ceallach

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gents,

The seller "ireldna" has not posted pictures of the suspension or Maker details on their auction!!!

Notice also the similarity with the picture titles / numbers, except 1.

I got an email reply via ebay that close-up pictures of the reverse would be sent today by seller "ireldna"

Call me paranoid but, methinks something is a bit fishy about this second auction

IRISH MERCHANT MARINE MEDAL WW2

I asked the seller when did he intend to send the pictures I requested days ago and got this in reply.

Did send to you by mail two days ago

Dennis

The pics I am using are from a previous sale of a medal exactly the same, take my word for it this is as good as you are going to get when it comes to this medal, it is 100% genuine and in excellent condition.

Regards

Dennis

Finally sold to "Starryplough" for: US $3.050,00

VERY FISHY

Kevin in Deva

[Paul L Murphy]

I cannot imagine that these are now going for $3,000 ! I have a spare one for sale so I must dig it out. I bought a nice documented group two years ago which had one of these and the whole group cost less than that. Hence, I now have a single medal for sale since I previously had a single no bar one of these. Irish medals must be one of the best investments I have ever made, I wonder is it time to start cashing in ??