Austria-Hungary Lapel Chain

[Rod]

As usual I have something I know little about!!

I understand it is a lapel chain. Humm .. does the "button" fit into the flower hole in the lapel and draped down with the lower end of the chain pinned to the lapel? (pin is missing along with maybe some links).

The "button" is said to have an 18kt gold hallmark and the makers mark for V. Mayer but they are very, very hard to see.

The chain is said to be for the Franz Joseph Order. Should it have the knights cross minature attached?

The medals are:

1. 1914 EK

2. 1908 Jubilee for Franz Joseph.

3. Franz Joseph Signum Laudis with swords.

All and all it seems to be in what I would consider fine condition with the possible missing links and pin as its only fault.

Would this is an officer's chain?

Any information or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much,

Rod

[hunyadi]

These are certainly for civilian wear for your Sundays Best. There are so many various attachment methods, but yours appears to be a lapel button hole type. I know that there are some CDV's and photos on this site (imperial section) with these in wear. Try a search. The Signum Laudis medal is an officer only medal so this would have been worn by an officer. The swords with the crown indicate the award was given for combat valor as this medal was bestowed in wartime, peacetime, rear units and frontline units. But to get the swords you had to hear the guns...

[Guest Rick Research]

Oddly enough, that chain ITSELF represents the Franz Joseph Order, so bizarrely enough, a mini of the Order would not have to be worn with it. Weird.

The "button" would go in the lapel button hole, and the other end used to fashion at an angle chosen by the wearer. Here's a German one showing the buttonhole end and the pin (some styles had pins on both ends) stuck in so the awards show the wearer wanted to display them:

[Rod]

Many thanks Hunyadi and Rick.

This chain really "talked" to me, but I understand they are easily altered by those that delete and trade the minis back and forth.

I would think (gets me into lots of trouble ) that the original owner would delight in showing the FJO cross mini, but then again, the chain does nicely speak for itself. Maybe the original owner was just a low key unpretenious kind of guy.

Rod

[Rod]

Guess I should add I do have a mini of the knights cross that I could easily add to the chain.... but then I will leave it to someone (%$###*%@#$) else to play with things. I just wish that collectors or whoever would leave things ALONE!!!!

HUmppp,

Rod

[hunyadi]

Though we try - it comes down to supply and demand. Most of us (not all of course) want to have a set that would remain together with the medals, the documents, the uniforms and the toothbrush. But for many of us its a hobby and not our job so we are not out there scouring the trashcans and the European flea markets evey day - so we find a source and that source is out there searching high and low for us and we pay them their fair share of work. However they are in the money end of it - so they know that one guy will pay X ammount for that pretty little FJ order and the other guy will buy Y and yet another guy will buy Z. But its harder to find the guy who will always have the money to buy X,Y,and Z so they break them up, take them appart and in the end of the day most people are 'satisfied' - not always 'happy' but 'satisfied'.

[Rod]

Just one last question:

Am I correct in saying that there is a heirarchy (sp?) of mounting minis the same as medal bars?

If so, then is this would be the proper order for my chain going from top (closest to the button) and then descending down to the (missing) pin? Note I am also including an Order of the Iron Crown mini I separately have in addition to the FJO knight I noted above. I am not going to change my chain, but I am curious.

1. Order of the Iron Crown - 3d class (closest to the button)

2. FJO knight

3. Signum Laudis

4. Jubilee Cross

5. (Prussian) EK (closest to the pin)

Many thanks,

Rod

Edited May 8, 2007 by Rod

[Josef Rietveld]

Hi Rod,

Nice chain with a lot of questions.

some points:

-This is a special chain for Knights of the Franz-Josef-Order

-Normally the FJO-Miniature is on the chain aswell

some things i don't like with this miniature-chain:

why is there a officers decoration signum laudis with swords (the swords were in instituted in 1917) an NO other austrian WWI-Decorations like minimum the Karl-Truppen-Kreuz or a wound medal. Active officers didn't wear this frock-chains because the always wore uniform. So IMHO this chain was used after 1918 and before the commemorative medals from austria, hungary, Tyrol or Germany have been issued.

On the other hand the chain belongs to a FJO-Knight a decoration that was very very seldom given to low-ranking officers like lieutenant or captain in peace AND wartime. if it belonged to a higher-rank-officer there should be at least the 1898-medal or a 25years-service-cross for officers on the chain aswell

I see three options:

Maybe this chain was once plundered (silver signum laudis, militry merit cross, etc)

Maybe an empty chain was once filled up

Maybe this chain once belonged to a doctor doing service during WWI. But most doctors got red-cross-decorations aswell.

where are thay on this chain?

you see, questions over questions

haynau

[Rod]

Hi Haynau,

Thanks for the comments. All this can get so darn confusing. At least my basic chain is ok. Oh well, I will keep looking for miniatures as I really do like them. I am looking for a cross of merit in gold with crown, but they seem scarcer than hen's teeth.

Regards,

Rod

[Jacky]

Hi rod,

what you could do is to look for slight wears on the chain, if they're there, let's say after every 2 buttons on the chain, there was a decoration, if you would look for wear on the chain, you might notice if any miniature have been removed from this chain.

But it's a very nice chain!

Kind regards,

Jacky

[Rod]

Hello Jacky,

I just returned from a thorough exam with a 10X loupe, but I can't be sure if medals have been switched or not. There is a good deal of patina so it is really hard to tell.

The swords on the signum laudis are so delicate I thought I had better take my chubby fingers off and just leave well enough alone.

Now the chain is nicely displayed in a glass front wall case along with a full size knights cross with its case. I did closely lay my separate mini knights cross under the chain in a way it looks attached. I think it looks great. I will leave further investigation to the next owner!!

Regards,

Rod

Edited May 9, 2007 by Rod

[Rod]

I made a posting to the "Wanted" forum asking for a mini FJ Cross of Merit with Crown in gold (not gilt silver).

For those of you that may not have seen that posting I just want to let you know here that I am still very interested in this mini!!!

Please email me or send me a message here if you have one that you might part with.

Thanks

Rod

[Rod]

I know I am beating this one to death BUT I still need help.

You will note my chain is missing the pin!!!! (and probably some of the links).

I would like to add at least the pin!!!

Can someone direct me to a source?????

I have checked the jewelers gold "findings" sites but cannot find what seems to be a good replacement.

Rod