Imperial Russia St Anne..... Good or Bad ?

[mravery]

Hello All,

Ok... this is a topic very distant than my area of collecting ... but I need to aquire one of these to complete a Danish general's uniform display.

Is this badge original or not ?

Seller states that it is gold.... with no maker mark... and pre-1918.

35mm in size.

Also.... what is the going rate for one of these ?

Cheers

Mark

Edited May 11, 2007 by mravery

[mravery]

reverse

[GeorgeCL]

Sounds like a 3rd class order.

St anna's pre 1917 were made of solid gold only.

Should be marked on loop or under enamel.

If made 1918 and after should be gilt bronz. But russian pieces are always marked with maker under enamel.

It could be a foreign made piece..

Arms look abit short, and the loop does not have the reinforcement bumps on either side.

I dont have one to show, but there should be some of Chucks posted in the forum.

St. Anna in gold should run approx. 3500.00 without swords. Rusian Made.

This one I dont know.

Looks odd. Much better pics needed.

george

Edited May 12, 2007 by GeorgeCL

[GeorgeCL]

Heres a couple pics of one that just sold on ebay..

1880's of earlier..

Gold mark and bumps.

[GeorgeCL]

revers showing loop..

P.S. this one sold for $4700.00 +

George

Edited May 12, 2007 by GeorgeCL

[mravery]

Hey George,

Yes.. I watched that one on ebay..... I figured the price was based on the garnet arms (special version ??)...

I've asked for better pics of the one I've posted.. and I'll post them if they send them.

Were these foreign made (who made them) and if so, how can I tell ?

I'm also assuming that the foreign made ones cost less than the official Russian made versions.

Cheers

Mark

[GeorgeCL]

Hi Mark,

I think the seller was misinformed about the "Garnet" arms

Its just the very dark enamel, sometimes referred to as black. But is just a deep dark red.

Most of the fine order and award makers of europe made Russian and there own.

Could be French post war.. Emigre issue 1920's 30's . Made as a replacement.

So it could still be gold just not marked.

But would sell at a fraction of the amount..

I would guess well below $1000.00.

George

[mravery]

Thanks George,

If I get the better pics, I'll post them.

Cheers

Mark

[mravery]

Hey Goerge,

well.. here are the new pics... but not much betterthanthe first set I'm afraid.

[mravery]

reverse

[mravery]

edge

[Igor Ostapenko]

Made in French

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7916

[mravery]

Igor,

NICE... what a fantastic medal bar...... andthanks for posting the French version ofthe St. Anne !

Cheers

Mark

[Yankee]

Hey George,

Yes.. I watched that one on ebay..... I figured the price was based on the garnet arms (special version ??)...

I've asked for better pics of the one I've posted.. and I'll post them if they send them.

Were these foreign made (who made them) and if so, how can I tell ?

I'm also assuming that the foreign made ones cost less than the official Russian made versions.

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mike

The one you saw on ebay is dark red enamel most likely made in the 1860's or 1870's it was the fashion back then perfectly a good piece and highly sought after however it would not work for you, the piece is way to early for your needs. You can also find them in black enamel as well & they should be hallmarked too. Non- Russian made ones are often encountered and usually have no markings. The one pictured is Russian made. Unfortunately there are copies now big time and you need to closely examine even the hallmarks can be forged.

Sincerely

Brian

[Yankee]

Hello All,

Ok... this is a topic very distant than my area of collecting ... but I need to aquire one of these to complete a Danish general's uniform display.

Is this badge original or not ?

Seller states that it is gold.... with no maker mark... and pre-1918.

35mm in size.

Also.... what is the going rate for one of these ?

Cheers

Mark

Avoid that one

Brian

[Yankee]

Hello All,

Ok... this is a topic very distant than my area of collecting ... but I need to aquire one of these to complete a Danish general's uniform display.

Is this badge original or not ?

Seller states that it is gold.... with no maker mark... and pre-1918.

35mm in size.

Also.... what is the going rate for one of these ?

Cheers

Mark

Avoid that one

[mravery]

Brian

Nothing came out in your thread !

Cheers

Mark

[Yankee]

Hi Mark

Oppps I apologize post 14 in response is to be addressed to you not mike

The Saint Anne you found has a 1st half 19th century painting of the Saint on a later (new) cross in shiny gold. I would shy away from it, the turn of the century ones do turn up often enough. I suspect a 1st half 3rd class that is proper would fetch 5000 these days. A late 19th century 1500-3000, auctions are a good source for them. Every now and then the orginal ribbon rings are included ( a thick long gold wire & they can be marked as well )

Sincerely

Brian

[mravery]

Hi Mark

Oppps I apologize post 14 in response is to be addressed to you not mike

The Saint Anne you found has a 1st half 19th century painting of the Saint on a later (new) cross in shiny gold. I would shy away from it, the turn of the century ones do turn up often enough. I suspect a 1st half 3rd class that is proper would fetch 5000 these days. A late 19th century 1500-3000, auctions are a good source for them. Every now and then the orginal ribbon rings are included ( a thick long gold wire & they can be marked as well )

Sincerely

Brian

Hey Brian,

Are you basing this "1st half 19th century painting of the Saint on a later (new) cross " for a Russian made piece ? I didn't know if the same rules would apply for a foriegn made one.

Cheers

Mark

[Yankee]

Hey Brian,

Are you basing this "1st half 19th century painting of the Saint on a later (new) cross " for a Russian made piece ? I didn't know if the same rules would apply for a foriegn made one.

Cheers

Mark

That is a good question actually, it could be for Foreign as well as Russian. Usually St. Anne's that are foreign made will have a well detailed picture of the Saint and are early for so many were given out for the Allies of the Napoleonic wars. Explains why you see so many early privately made foreign ones, they are rare too. The later centers are not as detailed but are beautifully colored in landscapes.

Sincerely

Brian

[Yankee]

Hi Mark

The one that Igor has posted is a nice example a WWl era foreign example. A Russian one from that period would not have that center beautifully detailed.

[GeorgeCL]

Hi Mark,

The new scans of the order dont help much.

But the one showing the reverse enamel edge view concerns me.

The enamel center look applied to the top instead of under the gold ring.

I would stay away from this one and look for a nice 56 gold version.

George

[mravery]

Thanks the comnents guys !!

I shall heed your warnings.....

Cheers

Mark