Opinions On Medal Bars

[saschaw]

Hmm, my feeling says to the bars sold on German Ebay by "2.mfg" as well. What do you think?

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by saschaw

[saschaw]

Another one:

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by saschaw

[saschaw]

Three's my lucky number ...

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by saschaw

[HeikoGrusdat]

ooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuu Sascha..............

As I know who is 2mfg my feeling is not bad and maybe he can answer this himself.............

[saschaw]

ooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuu Sascha..............

As I know who is 2mfg my feeling is not bad and maybe he can answer this himself.............

Then my honest apologize - if I should be wrong ...

[Bernd D]

Another one:

I like to have a good reason and explaination why these three medalbars should be a fake.

It is easy to place pictures claiming the object is a fake without further explainations.

What happens here is defamation.

All three medalbars are definitly original. I?m selling no fakes.

You don?t know much about good or bad, do you?

[saschaw]

Hmmm ... No more apologizes as I did yet in posting #48:

Then my honest apologize - if I should be wrong ...

No more reasons and no explanations. Please reread what I've written in posting #44: I didn't claim they to be wrong but that I've got a bad feeling (sic!) with these. A feeling, nothing more - so I ask for other opinions to learn something about it. "What do you think?" was my question - as we all do not know, do we?

PS:

After taking a closer look again, I'd say #1 might be good or might be a fake, #2 i s a fake in my humble and honest opinion (I would have placed a bid on it if I liked it), #3 is fine actually ...

This is no defamation, please do not use this term again referring to QUESTIONS I'm asking in a forum, thank you ...

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gentlemen

To avoid any misunderstandings and confusion, perhaps it would be better in future, if, a member who is in doubt as regards a particular items originality, to give the reason for his suspicions, this way, he will avoid causing any anger or resentment.

It has to be said, in all fairness, not all the items we see online, and post here for opinions, are in the hands of, or have been in the possession of G.M.I.C. members. Where a member is selling then he can answer any questions with regards the item in question, if he is inclined to do so

This I feel will avoid any unpleasentness amongst our fellow members.

Kevin in Deva.

[Bernd D]

PS:

After taking a closer look again, I'd say #1 might be good or might be a fake, #2 i s a fake in my humble and honest opinion (I would have placed a bid on it if I liked it), #3 is fine actually ...

This is no defamation, please do not use this term again referring to QUESTIONS I'm asking in a forum, thank you ...

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

I would like to expand on Kevin?s comments in post #51.

This forum provides us all with opportunity to learn. Thanks to the internet, the knowledge of our collective membership is instantly available; and it?s scope and depth surpass anything ever existent before. I would venture that virtually every member knows something that the rest of us don?t. Just as new information is constantly being uncovered, old concepts and beliefs are questioned and sometimes debunked.

I am just asking that when something is questioned, whenever possible, it is helpful to all if a reason is provided. This is how we learn. Let me give a very basic example. To say, for instance, that an 1870-71 combatants KDM is a copy does not fully serve the purpose. An additional explanation that it does not have the ?Aus Erobertem Geschuetz? impression on the rim says that it is not an original issue piece. We go into endless debates over EK?s and PLM?s which are very informative; but sometimes assume that everyone knows the more obvious.

Sure, there are times when it?s just a gut feeling that?s hard to describe; but I urge you to try. Maybe someone else sees the same thing who can put it into words.

Thanks for listening,

Wild Card

[Guest Rick Research]

True true. And all of us including me (yes, it's true! ) occasionally go "short form" rather than detailed reasons.

These are actually MEDAL bars and not RIBBON bars, so not the usual subject matter.

here is what I see of the three medal bars above, after 40+ years collecting:

Bar #1) The Allgemeine Ehrenzeichen is a decoration and should be in FRONT of the 1870 campaign medal. I have never seen one incorrectly mounted this way, but the mounting appears correct and as we all know by now, a LOT of Germans never paid attention to their own regulations. It is quite ODD, but beyond that all seems fine.

Bar #2) Now we have more problems. All 4 of these are in the wrong mounting regulation precedence: 1870, China, 1897, 1902. Maybe we have a super Baden patriot putting his native state jubilee medal first. OK. But a steel China before the 1870 is, again, completely contrary to German regulations. The fact that it is hanging up in the air and not level across the bottom with the other t 3 medals would make me wonder if a Hindenburg cross had been switched for the 1870 at some point. Even then, the out-of-sequence China is still a problem. Again, the mounting itself looks fine, but the awrds are incorrect by regulations.

Bar #3) I actually like everything about-- except for the rubber stamp on back from the outfitter. For this period (and I'd expect this to be pre-1914, not 1930s) a sewn on tag would have been "normal." So a rubber stamp that early is unusual. But that is one peach of a bar otherwise.

See? Everybody has their own opinions, for their own reasons, by their own experience.

I will attempt to move these MEDAL posts and replies into a separate thread. I hope my Amazing Super Powers are up to a task that difficult.

[saschaw]

I will attempt to move these MEDAL posts and replies into a separate thread. I hope my Amazing Super Powers are up to a task that difficult.

Have I told you lately that I love you?

For medal bar #2 see Kube auction no 98 (Siebentritt) item 509

Well, this does not say much about it, Siebentritt collection was not 100% clean as presumably no collection is. No one ever claimed y o u sew the bars.

Maybe we have a super Baden patriot putting his native state jubilee medal first.

Hmm, a Badener Combattant in 1870 without a Baden field service medal? Not very likely. A non-Baden Baden patriot? Even less likely ... Furthermore, I still don't like its mounting - for an ca. 1905 to 1910 bar.

The "H?ckert" bar is fine, very fine. Indeed nice old silk ribbons. I found a very similar but nicer one (will show it later) here in my father's collection. Same stamping on the back, same mounting ...

[Guest Rick Research]

Excellent! That is good to know. I can't read the stamp at all. Is it a BERLIN (if I squint, or am I imaging things?) address? In that case, we have the WONDERFUL online Berlin city directories to match address to time period.

Learning new things every day!

[saschaw]

Rick Research said:

In that case, we have the WONDERFUL online Berlin city directories to match address to time period.

I cannot read the adress, and on mine you cannot even read anything, but we can imagine it's the same stamp. We've got another way to match address to time period: an engraved medal of "Landwirtschafts-Kammer für die Provinz Brandenburg" to Schäfer August Miethe, Giersendorf, 1876-1906.

 

A nice bar for a Shepherd, isn't it?

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by saschaw

[saschaw]

To prevent this time any misunderstandings with posting bars I do not like as fake bars:

How do you like this bar sold by Mr. Niemann? The backing is ...

 

 

I know such backings which cover not only the bar, but as well the award's backs from Austrian monster fake bars and have never yet seen something like this on a good bar.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by saschaw

[saschaw]

And this ribbon bar has been shown by a German collector on another forum, and I have a bad feeling with it again. The backing says 1940s, and the combination of a Bavarian with no peacetime awards but a civil Württemberg merit medal is unlikely. Were this tiny swords in use in 1940s? Rick, please your opinion ...

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by saschaw

[Guest Rick Research]

The pin and catch on the medal bar certainly look odd-- but without having it in hand, to look at the entire backing, flash the ribbons, and so on, I couldn't say. Metal backings from WW2 should be mass produced commercially stamped things, not odd hand made creations.

And BTW, I would blacklight ANY medal or ribbon bar at this sad stage of our hobby.

The ratty 1934+ ribbon bar doesn't show any obvious signs of tampering, so I wonder if it is simply mismounted when it was made back then and there should have been swords on the W?rttemberg ribbon. Those ARE tiny swords, but aside from an odd choice of fashion statement, don't think that those make it a bad bar.