Romania Latest Purchase 2

[Alex K]

Another addition to my collection, the Romanian Order of the Crown first type, commander, unfortunately without ribbon. (Does anyone know where I can get ribbons, original or even, dare I say it modern. I am being increasingly drawn to eastern european awards for their inherent beauty. This comes with several hallmarks/stamps on the ring, which as yet I havn't been to identify.

regards

Alex

[Alex K]

The stamps

[Alex K]

It's being added to the family slowly

Order Grand Cross sash badge and commander

[Alex K]

and their two little brothers.

[Carol I]

Congratulations, Alex, it is a nice badge.

The stamps

Is the mark to the left "KF"? I think it indicates Karl Fischmeister of Vienna (anyone to confirm this?). The mark with two dauphins to the right is the Romanian mark for silver. I cannot make out the third mark on the ring, but it appears that there is a fourth mark on the suspension ring.

[Carol I]

and their two little brothers.

I do not want to disappoint you, but the badge to the left has a type II ribbon. Anyhow, do they have any hallmarks?

[Alex K]

Hi carol I, there does appear to be four stamps on the ring of the commander class. As I said in my original post, I need to look at them more closely, I'm sure when I'm in a better position to make better images, it will become clearer. with regards to the 4th class, I am quite happy to accept that the ribbon is not, authentic, it is in fact a modern repro, I have had my doubts about it for a while, this being said it was supplied at the time as the correct one, the award came without any. I would appreciate therefore any assistamne which could point me in the right direction of indicating or obtaining an original and correct ribbon for this piece. BTW the 1st class grand star sash badge is stamped on the suspension ring "ARE, IRF, don't know if that helps.

thanks for the comments

regards

Alex

[Carol I]

with regards to the 4th class, I am quite happy to accept that the ribbon is not, authentic, it is in fact a modern repro, I have had my doubts about it for a while, this being said it was supplied at the time as the correct one, the award came without any.

I was referring to the ribbon of the 5th class, the one with one silver stripe on the middle. The ribbon of the 4th class, the one with a rosette, seems OK for type I (light blue with silver/steel stripes on the sides).

BTW the 1st class grand star sash badge is stamped on the suspension ring "ARE, IRF, don't know if that helps.

I think the first mark is "ARG" that comes from Argint (Silver). The other one is probably "JRF" from the name of the jeweller, Joseph Resch & Fils. An "IRF" mark would indicate the spelling of the first name as Ioseph. Please let me know which one it is.

[Alex K]

Hi Carol I, sorry I,ve not replied as yet, I'm not at the moment in a position to find further info, away from home, but I'll try to find out more when I'm back.

regards

Alex

[paul wood]

Alex,

Lovely to see those original crowns a real set of gems.

Enjoy

Paul

Hi Carol I, sorry I,ve not replied as yet, I'm not at the moment in a position to find further info, away from home, but I'll try to find out more when I'm back.

regards

Alex

[Alex K]

Hi Paul, thanks for the comments. As I said in my opening post, I think Eastern European (Pre-Communist) awards are really attractive, and under appreciated sometimes, in comparison to say Imperial german or british etc.

regards

Alex

[Alex K]

Hi Carol I positively ARG IRF on the Grand cross sash badge. with regards to the Commaner class, attached are the best scans I can do, maybe this will assist

regards

[Alex K]

the other side

[Carol I]

with regards to the Commaner class, attached are the best scans I can do, maybe this will assist

Well, it will be quite interesting to decipher all the hallmarks. On the little rings seems to be no less than 5 marks: "KF", one with a swan, two that I cannot make out (can you look at them through a magnifying glass and give some further details?) and one with two dolphins.

As I said above, the two dolphins are a Romanian mark for silver. And, according to Andreas' site, the swan is a French import mark.

Questions still remain about the "KF" and the other two marks.

[Carol I]

Is there a sixth hallmark on the suspension ring?

[Alex K]

Hi Carol I well spotted there are infact two, very small ones, I will try to either scan or describe when I can.

regards

Alex

[Alex K]

Carol I attached are images showing the hallmarks I can identify.

the suspension loop is hallmarked with two very small AA

regards

[Alex K]

and another one

[Carol I]

To summarise the marks on this badge:

Small ring:

- KF - indicating Karl Fischmeister of Vienna (confirmation?)

- swan - French import mark (according to Andreas' site)

- A with a dot beneath - Vienna city assay office mark

- unknown - could be an Austrian mark for silver

- dolphins - Romanian mark for silver

Suspension loop:

- two As (I did not understand whether there is one mark with two As, or two marks each an A) - unknown yet

This is an interesting collection of marks. It could indicate a badge manufactured in Austria, sent to Romania and subsequently awarded to a Frenchman and therefore exported to France.

[Carol I]

Take a look at the image from an article by James W. Schaaf posted by Rick Research in Unknown hallmarks and maybe you will identify the unknown mark on the small ring and the double letter mark on the suspension loop. Maybe the latter is not AA, but FR to indicate "luxury tax paid".

[Alex K]

The marks on the suspension loop is 2 individual A A, thanks for the rest of the interesting information, If you are correct, it seems to have travelled about a bit. I will look at the site you posted to see if anything resembles the mysterious one

regards

Alex

[Alex K]

Just checked on the site link you provided, a very powerful magnifying glass suggests the following is the closest, the head is actually slightly indistinct but the shape and the number/letter A 1 are present.

does this help or mystify?

edit forgtot to add the attachment

regards

Alex

Edited May 26, 2007 by Alex K

[Carol I]

Just checked on the site link you provided, a very powerful magnifying glass suggests the following is the closest, the head is actually slightly indistinct but the shape and the number/letter A 1 are present.

does this help or mystify?

It helps to determine the silver content of the badge (0.950). The Romanian mark for silver has an "I" in between the two dolphins, also indicating a high silver content (I don't remember the thresholds and the site that used to indicate them has unfortunately disappeared ).

The only remaining thing now is the meaning of the two "A" marks on the suspension loop. It would be interesting to see them if possible.

[Alex K]

a little bit difficult to scan, but I'll try

regards

[Carol I]

a little bit difficult to scan, but I'll try

I can imagine that, so it's no problem if you don't succeed. An alternative method would be a digital camera with a good macro function, but this could also be tricky since the marks are so small and diffcult to get in focus.