Austria-Hungary Some of why I like Austrian medals

[Richard V]

Here are a couple of interesting Austrian medal bars I've acquired over the years. I thought these were beautiful examples. My original interest came from a set of golden Verdienstkreuze with and without crown, Iron Verdienstkreuz without crown, bronze Tapferkeitsmedaille all with the award documents I received from my Austrian godmother's husband. The medals and papers also included 3 promotion documents. I'll try to get them pictured in this thread too at a later date when I have a bit more time. For the time being, these 2 medal bars will have to suffice. Hope you enjoy them.

Richard V

[Richard V]

Here's the second bar. Still trying to get used to posting pics so I apologize for their small size.

Richard V

[Mike Dwyer]

Here's the second bar. Still trying to get used to posting pics so I apologize for their small size.

Richard V

Very nice! It's interesting to see that they are mounted in the German court style and not in the usual Austrian triangle style. Perhaps the owners lived in Germany, or they were put together after Germany and Austria were united?

[Guest Rick Research]

Exceptionally nice bars! The first one must have been a young medical officer from that combination of Franz Joseph Order on war ribbon X and the war decoration Red Cross award. With the Sudeten Medal/Prague bar, he must have been in some sort of "new" uniform to have been travelling like that so soon after Anschluss.

[Richard V]

Mike, I would have to say the latter because of the 3rd Reich medals that are on the bars. I've loved the first bar from the day I aquired it as the FJ medal is one of my favorites. It is nothing short of a work of art and I had always wished to own one when suddenly this bar became available. The seller was kind enough to allow me to pay it out over time as my limited means didn't allow for the full price all at once, even though it was very reasonably priced (or so I believe). The second bar has always intrigued me as it belonged to an Austrian but it was someone who managed to qualify for the 15 year NSDAP award. I have always wondered what criteria were used to determine the 15 years in this individuals dossier. The Anschluss happened in 1938 and in another 7 years the war was over. I assume he might have been a "closet" National Socialist prior to the Anschluss, or (because of the EK2) might have been some type of Austrian that fought with the Germans in WW1 and perhaps received some kind of credit for his military service. It's always been a somewhat confusing bar for me. Of the many 3rd Reich awards, I appreciate the beauty of the 15 year NSDAP enameled cross. I'm a sucker for enamel but he deep azure color of this particular award makes it one of my favorites. I feel it is much more attractive than its rarer cousin, the 25 year award.

Richard V

Edited July 23, 2007 by Richard V

[Richard V]

Well here is the grouping from my Godmother's husband. His name was Joseph W?nsch. Can anyone tell me where I might go to research the signatures on the documents? I'd like to do a bit of research on these documents as a whole but don't know where to start. First the medals and the award documents.

Richard V

Edited July 23, 2007 by Richard V

[Richard V]

Here are the promotion documents. This group is one of the reasons I want to learn how best to do research on signatures, units, awards of Austria. Both my Godmother and her husband passed away long ago, before I became interested in militaria. They were quite old when I was born and they both passed away before I was old enough to remember. Their daughter gave me this grouping once I had developed an interest but knew nothing of her father's service. I would like to try to determine what he did, where and for what he might have received the medals. I can garner generic bits from the documents as to the nature of the awards, but I'd like to know more about what actions received what awards so I have a better understanding of this grouping in particular but of other medals I have acquired and hopefully will be acquiring. A question for Rick. Does the Mericka book also explain anything about the criteria for which the awards were given?

Richard V

Edited July 23, 2007 by Richard V

[saschaw]

The second bar has always intrigued me as it belonged to an Austrian but it was someone who managed to qualify for the 15 year NSDAP award.

I'm pretty sure this is not an Austrian's but a German's bar, who fought with the Austrians and so managed to get the Austrian Bravery Medal, or he was just in a regiment whose honour chief was the Austrian emperor ...

[Richard V]

I'm pretty sure this is not an Austrian's but a German's bar, who fought with the Austrians and so managed to get the Austrian Bravery Medal, or he was just in a regiment whose honour chief was the Austrian emperor ...

Thanks for the input. I suppose it would be difficult to determine either way. I've just not seen very many combinations like this.

Richard V

[saschaw]

Thanks for the input. I suppose it would be difficult to determine either way. I've just not seen very many combinations like this.

Hmm, I'd think it's pretty easy: any Austrian soldier would have held some more awards, at least a Truppenkreuz ...

Edited August 11, 2007 by saschaw

[Guest Rick Research]

Maybe Glenn can help with the bizarre rank titles. If he remained in Austria after the war, his personnel records should be available from the War Archive in Vienna.

The gray cross can't have been his-- that was awarded to "persons without rank status" i.e. privates. The others show wartime promotion from a sergeant-major or warrant officer level to crossing the line equivalent to a commissioned officer. He must have had the 1908 Military Jubilee Cross and possibly an enlisted ranks long service cross from before the war.

Each of these awards with the document-- again, assuming he remained in Austria after 1918--can be researched from the war archive

they have the actual CITATIONS, showing approvals up the chain of command. When you contact them, provide name, rank, unit details as noted, and the dates and file numbers on the documents and ask for the BELOHNUNGSANTRAG on each one. I haven't had any Austrian research in over 25 years, but they sent xerox copies then on nominal payment for postage and copying. From those, they should be able to locate his personnel file.

There is mention of "before the enemy" on the Gold Merit Cross and Gold Merit Cross with Crown documents, though in every case he is described as from the military care depot at Theresienstadt (later the SS's showplace concentration camp).

[Dave Danner]

There is mention of "before the enemy" on the Gold Merit Cross and Gold Merit Cross with Crown documents, though in every case he is described as from the military care depot at Theresienstadt (later the SS's showplace concentration camp).

Well, there was a POW camp in Theresienstadt.

[Richard V]

Many thanks for all the information. Interesting about the iron version of the Merit Cross. The entire grouping was given to me by his daughter who is a good friend of my mother's (hence the fact Josef's wife was my Godmother). This included the iron cross but it now raise suspicion as it is the only award for which there is not a corresponding award document. I suppose this could be why but I find it curious that it would have been included with all his other awards. Makes me wonder from where it came? Rick, do you have any link to the War Archive in Vienna? I'm not having a lot of luck with Google on this. Would I need to provide the name, rank, unit, etc. from each document or would they be able to locate his records with the information from one of them? Again, many thanks for the information so far.

Richard V

Edited August 13, 2007 by Richard V