Austria-Hungary German Bar: one Austrian award is missing. Help !

[monfort1]

Hi

I just get this ty?cal German bar. Only the Austrian award is missing.

Which award was on this bar? As you can see the small hook is placed close to the top of the bar: 5cm betwwen this hook and the bottom of the German "Hindenbourg" Cross. So, it was for a Signum Laudis? I don't think so. A Verdienst Kreuz? Possible, but I am not sure.

What do you think about?

[hipnos]

Hi

I just get this ty?cal German bar. Only the Austrian award is missing.

Which award was on this bar? As you can see the small hook is placed close to the top of the bar: 5cm betwwen this hook and the bottom of the German "Hindenbourg" Cross. So, it was for a Signum Laudis? I don't think so. A Verdienst Kreuz? Possible, but I am not sure.

What do you think about?

As it comes with a Bravery-war ribbon, and at this hook situation: It could be. a Big silver Bravery medal (Franz-Joseph or Karl), and why not a Signum laudis (by the crown), gold/silver and FJ /Karl. I don?t think on a Military VerdienstCross for its size

Greetings

Miguel

[monfort1]

As it comes with a Bravery-war ribbon, and at this hook situation: It could be. a Big silver Bravery medal (Franz-Joseph or Karl), and why not a Signum laudis (by the crown), gold/silver and FJ /Karl. I don?t think on a Military VerdienstCross for its size

Greetings

Miguel

Hi Miguel

Thank you !

[Guest Rick Research]

Not a Signum Laudis-- Germans did not get those.

There are no clues as to RANK with this combination, making it difficult to guess. You'd have to try various things and see what hangs most level from that spot.

It's in the wrong post-1938 precedence-- after Anschluss any Austrian WW1 decorations should come before the Hindenburg Cross, suggesting that whatever it was, the wearer did not value very highly.

[hipnos]

Not a Signum Laudis-- Germans did not get those.

There are no clues as to RANK with this combination, making it difficult to guess. You'd have to try various things and see what hangs most level from that spot.

It's in the wrong post-1938 precedence-- after Anschluss any Austrian WW1 decorations should come before the Hindenburg Cross, suggesting that whatever it was, the wearer did not value very highly.

I don?t know the signum laudis was not for the germans...it?s because it was a "touch of steem" from the Austrian monarch to austrian subjects???

Miguel

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gents,

how about a bronze Tapferkeit medal of Franz-Josef?

or a bronze Fortividini medal of Carol ?

Or the zink version of the Merit Cross

Kevin in Deva

[monfort1]

Hi Kevin

From my side, I was thinking about a Merit / Verdienst Cross, war-production, indeed.

Maybe a Tapferkeit too...

[Ulsterman]

Given the lack of any LS medals or other paraphernalia-no Austrian, Hungarian or Bulgarian commem.s etc., this guy was probably a civilian-or at least in a paramilitary uniform in 1941. My guess is the lower end Austrian bravery medal-you see these quite often in photos.

[Guest Rick Research]

The bronze and silver Signum Laudis were apparently considered too lowly to bestow on foreigners. The usual award for foreign officers was the Military Merit Cross.

[monfort1]

Hi

Thank you everybody for your help

I am quite convinced it would be a Zinc Verdienst Kreuz.

But for me, this bar belonged to a German person, who was at some time in Austria.

Am I wrong?

[Josef Rietveld]

My favorites are: Iron Merit Cross with Crown or a bravery medal

theoretically it could have been a serbian royal household medal, then it would fit with the last position.

haynau

[monfort1]

Hi Haynau

Thank you. The serbian royal household medal is wonderful !

I did know it had the same ribbon as the Austrian .

SO, according to you, I can add on this bar the cross below?

[Kev in Deva]

With regards Serbia, they were on the Allied side in WW1.

So would he rate a Serbian award Post WW1?

or would he be allowed to retain a Serbian award, earned pre-1914, after 1918 on his medal bar?

or were these Serbian awards made in to foreigners in WW2?

Kevin in Deva.

[Josef Rietveld]

1st of all Isaid THEORETICALLY

2nd, this household medal is the Alexander I. Type so post-1918, he was assasinated in 1934 in France as far as i know and was king of the SHS-State from 1921-1934. This medal was given to foreigners aswell. It is very implausible but it could be.

my personal favorites for this bar i wrote before

haynau

[Kev in Deva]

1st of all Isaid THEORETICALLY

2nd, this household medal is the Alexander I. Type so post-1918, he was assasinated in 1934 in France as far as i know and was king of the SHS-State from 1921-1934. This medal was given to foreigners aswell. It is very implausible but it could be.

my personal favorites for this bar i wrote before. haynau

Hallo haynau,

I was not criticizing your choice, just trying to understand more with regards this Serbian medal's criteria,

and possibility of being awarded to a German / Austrian person.

Is there any documented evidence, photographic or written of it being awarded this way?

Kevin in Deva.