Strange Luftschutz Ribbonbar

[Paul R]

What are your thoughts on this one...

Centennial Medal, but no WW1 participation? I guess it is possible?

[Guest Rick Research]

Possible, sure. But I'd expect him to have had the 40 years Civil Service (1938 Treudienst) Cross to explain exemption from WW1 military service. What's the strange SCRUFFING on the 3rd ribbon?

[Paul R]

Possible, sure. But I'd expect him to have had the 40 years Civil Service (1938 Treudienst) Cross to explain exemption from WW1 military service. What's the strange SCRUFFING on the 3rd ribbon?

It looks like there used to be a LW device on the ribbon at some point. What are your thoughts on that tidbid?

[Andwwils]

If the missing device is a Luftwaffe DA IV KL. eagle, I'm guessing that the original owner served long enough prior to WWI to get the IX year Prussian LS medal and then entered the Landwehr (maybe - 2nd ribbon) but was too busy doing something else to serve in WWI but ended-up as some-sort of Luftwaffe uniformed official during the Second World-War (he would have been pushing 70 by then mind you as evidenced by the 1897 Centennial Medal.) His technical skills may have exempted him from service in WWI. This is all pure "educated" speculation though. It doesn't explain away the absence of some kind of Third Reich civil service decoration though.

Edited April 27, 2008 by Andwwils

[vestae]

Nice insignia,

I am not sure about the details, but a nice item

Sebastien.

[Paul R]

Thanks guys.

If what Andwwils states is the case, it looks as if he could have been a liason officer with the Luftschutz?

[Guest Rick Research]

No.

[Paul R]

Then what would it mean?

[Guest Rick Research]

What would you think if somebody slid a WW1 Victory Medal ribbon into your rack?

[Paul R]

What would you think if somebody slid a WW1 Victory Medal ribbon into your rack?

I would think that people would think that I was over 100 years old. lol

I am thinking athat someone may have placed an eagle onto this perfectly nice bar, post war then removed it.

[Andwwils]

Probably so Paul. Without it what you have is a field bar for a Luftschutz NCO who served at least three years in that organization to automatically get the Luftschutz II Class Medal sometime around 1942/1943ish and who *actually *probably* maybe* did something extraordinary while in the line of duty to get the KVKIIX.

I have a late-war SS/Police soldbuch for a Luftschutz Oberwachtmeister who was born in 1875 who had a similar career as the person who (most likely) originally wore this bar - except my guy didn't get a KVKIIX even though he served throughout the entire war and picked up the Ehrenmedaille II along the way.

[Paul R]

Probably so Paul. Without it what you have is a field bar for a Luftschutz NCO who served at least three years in that organization to automatically get the Luftschutz II Class Medal sometime around 1942/1943ish and who *actually *probably* maybe* did something extraordinary while in the line of duty to get the KVKIIX.

I have a late-war SS/Police soldbuch for a Luftschutz Oberwachtmeister who was born in 1875 who had a similar career as the person who (most likely) originally wore this bar - except my guy didn't get a KVKIIX even though he served throughout the entire war and picked up the Ehrenmedaille II along the way.

Cool Stuff!!! Thanks Andy!

[Ulsterman]

One old man:

So, this guy is born @ 1870, goes into the army @ 1890, stays through three enlistments (+) and ends up (probably as an NCO), gets out before 1910, gets his nice civil service job, which he receives as an old vet and is in a war exempted occupation (trains/post office/forestry/etc.) and then joins the Luftschutz to do his bit say @ 1935-1945. being an older NCO he might well have been some sort of squad leader, training and leading a group of volunteer (HJ) firefighters etc. (pure speculation, but I have seen photos like this).

He gets the KVkx as a geezer during some notable air raid incident.

Interesting bar.

Unless it's a fake. Personally I doubt it, but its not my bailiwick.

[Paul R]

Thanks Ulsterman. I surely hope that it is not fake.

What is a bailiwick?

[Ulsterman]

A bailiwick is an area of expertise or authority.

It comes from the days when Ireland was "Wilde" and local (Norman/English) authority really only existed in the few miles around the keep of the local castle (The "Baille").

The Pale , as in "that's beyond the Pale" was the area around Dublin where English/Plantagenet/Tudor rule existed. Beyond those lands, "wilderness...and the fearful sounds of ullian pipes" as the local clans gathered for a cattle/sheep raid.

Edited May 2, 2008 by Ulsterman

[Guest Rick Research]

NOT a Beamter-- no 1938 Treudienstkreuz.

[Andwwils]

NOT a Beamter-- no 1938 Treudienstkreuz.

This guy had to have been outside the realm of the traditional civil services in his civilian life career(s) following his initial military service. Given his age and the fact that military service counted towards the treudienstkreuz year count, he should have had enough "time-in" to get at least the lower silver-class by 1938. Unless his award got tangled in bureaucratic red-tape somewhere along the line.

He could have been an agricultural worker - a farmer/landowner who received an agricultural deferment during the First World War or something like that. There's no way of knowing. It's all speculation I'm afraid.

[Ulsterman]

I assumed LS ribbon (with tear/rip) #2 is civil service. A Lufty eagle would be impossible at this guys' age....esp. with no HK.

Still, looking at the back-regular stitiching and is that a hand snipped catch? Hmmmm.......

Edited May 2, 2008 by Ulsterman

[Paul R]

I dont think that the catch is hand snipped.