France LdH

[Eric Stahlhut]

[Eric Stahlhut]

[Hendrik]

Very nice one, Eric !

I believe this type of the July Monarchy (1830-1838), with "Henri IV" at the bottom of its centre, is far from a common one.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Veteran]

Hello Erik

I fully support Hendrik's diagnosis (except for the dates, which are rather 1830-1848). Il is a gold officer's badge of the Louis-Philippe reign, also known as the July Mobarchy since it emerged from the Parisian revolt against Charles X in July 1830.

From what can be seen of the ribbon, it would appear to be period, adding quite a bit to the badge's value. The missing enamel on the oakleaves is a current accident with the Legion of honor.

A delightful piece. Congratulations

Veteran

Edited May 26, 2008 by Veteran

[Eric Stahlhut]

Thank you gentlemen,

I have a few more specimens that I will be happy to post. I'm not very well-versed on the different types of this wonderful order but I enjoy owning the ones that I have. Your insights are very much appreciated!

[Eric Stahlhut]

[Eric Stahlhut]

[Veteran]

This one is distincly a Restauration chevalier badge. Restauration was the period when the Bourbon kings, brothers of Louis XVI who was guillotined by the Revolution, came back from exile when Napoleon abdicated in 1814; after a short return of Napoleon (March-June 1815) culminating with the battle of Waterloo. First Louis XVIII, then his brother Charles X reigned until 1830.

It would be nice to have measurements (preferably millimeters) when such badges are shown. In those days, badges were worn at all times, and reduced size stars were available for wear on the civilian coat. The ribbon with a white border is sometimes found with Legion of honor, although it was more Saint-Louis.

Again a nice item, showing the usual traces of wear.

Regards

Veteran

Edited May 27, 2008 by Veteran

[Eric Stahlhut]

Hello,

here are the approximate dimensions of the first two orders:

july monarchy: 60x42mm.

restauration: 43x25mm.

[Veteran]

Hello,

here are the approximate dimensions of the first two orders:

july monarchy: 60x42mm.

restauration: 43x25mm.

This confirms my first impression. The Louis-Philippe is full size (during that reign they tended to be overly "full size").

The Restauration is a typical "half size", currently worn in "civvies".

Nice period pieces.

Regards

Veteran

[Hendrik]

... except for the dates, which are rather 1830-1848 ...

Oops, a typing error ! Thanks for the correction, V?t?ran !!!

Nice authentic items, Eric ... keep them coming

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Eric Stahlhut]

approx. 60x38mm

[Eric Stahlhut]

[Hendrik]

Hello Eric,

It gets better and better ! A gorgeous 1st Empire, 3rd type knight class if I'm not mistaken. My only reservation is that the 3 stars on the medallion differ on the obverse vs. the reverse. Haven't seen that before but then again, the streets aren't really littered with these early ones and in such great condition too ... Let's wait and see what Veteran has to say about it !

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Veteran]

Hello Erik

Thank you for those beautiful pictures. Hendrik is right : 3rd type Napoleon I. A very well preserved badge, since they were constantly worn.

There was a variety of medallions, both obverse and reverse. THE reference book on the subject is :

Mus?e national de la L?gion d'honneur de des ordres de chevalerie. L'INSIGNE DE L'HONNEUR de la L?gion ? l'?toile 1802-1815 Paris 2005

Pictures taken from badges included in the official collections of the Museum, show fourteen different obverse medallions, seven of which are laureate, and eleven different reverses. Both obverse and reverse medaillions on the badge you show are again different from those shown in the book, although I would be prepared to bet that they both are period.

Congratulations for your fine collection.

Veteran

Edited May 31, 2008 by Veteran

[Eric Stahlhut]

no, thanks to the both of you for your explanations and for enjoying them! i have another example in gold that i think you will like very much. i will post it soon.

and i also have a commander or grand cross example without the ribbon (pre 1870, i think--can't remember exactly).

[Eric Stahlhut]

as promised.

the green on the left side of crown is a reflection from a book cover that the camera tripod was resting on.

Edited June 4, 2008 by Eric Stahlhut

[Eric Stahlhut]

[Hendrik]

Hello Eric,

I'm a bit stumped on this one ... very nice-looking commander class but it looks a hybrid one to me at first glance : 2nd Empire cross with 1st Empire obverse centre. Am anxious to see Veteran's reaction to this one !

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Eric Stahlhut]

Hi Hendrik,

I was just visiting the Brussels Royal Army Museum website minutes ago, and at first I thought it was definitely a 2nd Empire. Then I noticed the same thing: the center background is smooth and not rayed. Very interesting (and confusing)!

p.s. let me know if you would like to see any other angle or view a specific part; i will be happy to post more pictures.

eric

Edited June 4, 2008 by Eric Stahlhut

[Hendrik]

I was just visiting the Brussels Royal Army Museum website minutes ago

Hi Eric,

... a very nice place to go ! I'll be there (again) on Sunday morning for a visit with some French collectors

It wasn't the obverse centre's background that caught my eye but its legend : "EMP." (1st Empire) instead of "EMPEREUR" (2nd Empire).

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Veteran]

Hello Eric,

Hendrik's remark is understandable. Regulations for 2nd Empire types of Legion of Honor mention the obverse medallion as having "Napol?on Empereur des Fran?ais".

In fact, the question is academic.... since there were no Commanders' badges during the 1st Empire. The rank was introduced in 1814 with the Restauration of Bourbon kings (Louis XVIII). It is therefore impossible that such medallions would have been manufactured before the Presidency of Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte 1850-52. This is necessarily 2nd Empire.

I also checked the Commander's badge in my own collection. It is absolutely identical to yours, with the EMP. abreviation. It belonged to Colonel GUICHERT who was in command of the 3rd Cuirassiers. He died in 1865. It goes with his Sainte-H?l?ne medal. Both awards are framed together.

To understand this, one must remember that these superb badges were made by independant jewelers, who could introduce variations in their production without too much official interference. I wonder if Commandeurs' badges with the full title EMPEREUR ever existed ?

Very nice piece. They are quite scarce on the market, these days. I hope I have contributed to your understanding of the badges of the Order.

Regards

Veteran

Edited June 5, 2008 by Veteran

[Eric Stahlhut]

Veteran,

you have definitely provided a very knowledgeable commentary to accompany each of the pieces in my small collection. i think i can speak for anyone who reads this thread when i say that your insights have positively enhanced the viewing experience.

i have had these items for a very long time, but since they are in a separate field from my collecting interests, i never pursued the information behind them completely. only after joining this forum a short time ago and noticing the depth of knowledge being displayed

here did i decide to display these items in hopes of an accurate description.

Veteran and Hendrik,

thanks again!

p.s. i will post the final item in my rather limited L d'H collection as soon as it is returned to me (it is loaned to a friend at this moment).

[Eric Stahlhut]

and i also have a commander or grand cross example without the ribbon (pre 1870, i think--can't remember exactly).

here it is. i think this is the type x (1870-1951), right? it measures 120mm x 63-64mm.

grand cross?

[Eric Stahlhut]

it's silver gilt

Edited September 23, 2008 by Eric Stahlhut