Turkey 2 Examples of Order of Osmanie with Scimitars and My favorite !

[avsaribar]

Dear Friends ,

I am pasting 2 Order of Osmanie with Scimitars , both of them are 1 st Class.

And I am pasting a picture of my Order of Meclis-i Mebusan from my stock.

It was awarded to the members of the National Assembly , I think one of the most

kind and beautiful Order ever made in Ottoman Empire. Altough it was not awarded

by the Sultan.

Cheers..

Avsar Ibar

 

 

Edited April 28, 2018 by demir
Avşar asked to remove the photos.

[avsaribar]

The 1 st Class Breast Star of Osmanie Order with Scimitars.

Edited June 24, 2008 by avsaribar

[avsaribar]

And Meclis-i Mebusan

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks!!

[Ulsterman]

Beautiful!!!!1

That is amazing quality.

[Guest Rick Research]

:Cat-Scratch: Aha! We have seen the "pirate" swords with western-style finger guard hilts before as strange ribbon devices, but I have NEVER seen the Western style swords on an actual ORDER before--like your first scan.

Is that something you can identify as the work of one particular jeweller?

[avsaribar]

 

Aha! We have seen the "pirate" swords with western-style finger guard hilts before as strange ribbon devices, but I have NEVER seen the Western style swords on an actual ORDER before--like your first scan.

Is that something you can identify as the work of one particular jeweller?

 

Dear Rick ,

Basicly the 2 different Orders I pasted above , I mean the Osmanie Order with Pirate Type Swords and the

Breast Star with Normal Swords are the ALL 2 examples of the swords used by Osmanie and Medjidie Orders.

For the Order of Murassa (With Diamonds) Iftihar , it only used the second type (As you can see above on the

breast star) swords used.

Inside the second type swords (the ones on the breast star) , you can also observe that , there are 2 kind of

swords which looks very smilar , the ones you can see on the blades with blood gutters and the ones without

blood gutters. The ones on my Breast Star are with Blood channel .

As some people said that the pirate ones are made earlier period then the normal swords , what we observe is ,

both of them used starting from the Sultan Reshad Period. The orders didnt made with swords , the swords

attached to the orders of the deserved ones later on. This attachement made by mint , never and not by custom jewellers.

Even on the Order of Murassa Iftihars 1839 (older order then Medjidie 1851 and Osmanie 1862 orders) , the swords used

are the second type swords with blood channels. (Same as the ones you saw above on the breast star)

Cheers ,

Avsar Ibar

Edited April 28, 2018 by demir

[Guest Rick Research]

Ah-- thanks! I have only a Medjidie 5th with Sabers.

[Josef Rietveld]

i show mine (diameter 100 mm) as addition, cause i love it so much

haynau

Edited June 26, 2008 by Josef Rietveld

[avsaribar]

Dear Joseph ,

You have also very nice Order of Medjidie , it is also Ottoman Made.

Very Beautiful...

Cheers ,

Avsar Ibar

[Josef Rietveld]

Dear Avsar Ibar,

thanks for your comment. I have one question maybe you know the answer. On the stars backside is the royal mint medaillon (hallmark) and above a small oval second hallmark depicting the thugra (reschad V). only on the medjidie-star with swords i can find this special hallmark. have you any idea what is the meaning of this hallmark?

thanks in advance

josef

[avsaribar]

Dear Joseph ,

Could you please post the picture of the back side.

Regards,

Avsar Ibar

[avsaribar]

Dear Joseph ,

Could you please post the picture of the back side.

Regards,

Avsar Ibar

[Josef Rietveld]

sorry for the pic, but my old cam reached its limit

[avsaribar]

Dear Joseph ,

I exactly understand what you mean.

What I will tell you is , The Tughra Stamp , up of the mint mark is not usual ,

it is true , but there is no relation between the un-usual Tughra Mark and

the Swords. I see many Medjidie Orders before with Tughra Mark , but

I never see Osmanie Orders with Tughra Mark. Anyway , the Tughra Marked

All Medjidie orders has one similar characteristic . All of them is "Eagle Style"

Medjidie Orders .

For example , below I am posting a picture of Standard Medjidie 2 nd Class

Breast Star. It is also Ottoman Made , but You can NEVER see Tughra Mark

on those Medjidie Orders.

[avsaribar]

......

Now I am posting you a Medjidie Order , "Eagle Type" like yours , without swords

but had a Tughra Marked on the reverse. Unfortunately , I sold it , that is why

I can not paste the picture of the reverse. But it had Tughra mark.

[avsaribar]

Also the Mint mark of the "Eagle Type" Medjidie orders are more smaller and thinner borders then the

other Ottoman Made medjidie Orders. You can compare your Order's mint mark with the below standard

Medjidie Order's mint mark.

[avsaribar]

And , about Tughra Mark , last I want to tell you that , Tughra Marks are stamped

to mention the period of the Ottoman SILVER art's period. They mention in which

Sultan's period they made. Nearly all the silver stuffs of Ottoman Empire has the Tughra

Marks. Such as Silver Bottles , trays , Cups , Bowls ,candles, pitchers and else what you imagine

in silver.

I am pasting you a Tughra Marked Silver Candle which is made during Sultan 2nd AbdulHamid.

[avsaribar]

And Another Order of Medjidie 1st Class , With Original Period Swords , without Tughra Mark.

It is also a Standard Ottoman Made Type , Not like yours.

[mahoni]

Dear josef,

Hope you don't mind my comment on this.

I believe the tughra mark above the Ottoman mint mark is an assay mark of the gold content used for the sabers which might explain seeing this mark on the orders with sabers,and it also helps identifying the period of the object.But at the same time it is worth mentioning that not all Turkish orders with sabers do have this mark.

[avsaribar]

Dear josef,

Hope you don't mind my comment on this.

I believe the tughra mark above the Ottoman mint mark is an assay mark of the gold content used for the sabers which might explain seeing this mark on the orders with sabers,and it also helps identifying the period of the object.But at the same time it is worth mentioning that not all Turkish orders with sabers do have this mark.

Dear Mahoni ,

1 - Ottoman Empire never used Tughra Mark on the Gold items. (I am talking about Tughra Stamp , i mean , not medallions or Tughras such as the ones

you see in middle of the Medjidie Orders obverse)

2 - Those sabers are not gold , they are gold gilt.

3 - I saw many Tughra Marked Orders of Medjidie without Swords - Sabers.

Sincere Regards,

Avsar Ibar

Ibar Jewellery Orders & Medals

http://www.avsaribar.com

info@avsaribar.com

[Josef Rietveld]

@Mahoni, of course your comment is appreciated. But if this thugra-stamp would indicate gold, why are such marks not on the reverse of the 1st class sash-badge with swords i bought together with the star?

see pic, the badge in the middle is the one with swords

regards

josef

[avsaribar]

Dear Sirs ,

That Tughra Stamp doesnt have any relation with or about the gold / gold content.

Cheers,

Avsar Ibar

PS: It is just a stamp , which only used in Silver items to prove the originalty and the period.

[mahoni]

Hi,

I did mention that not all Turkish orders with sabers would necessarily have this mark.

and I would like to Quote Edhem Eldem page 198 indicating similar comment on a 3rd class + 1st class medjidie order with Ottoman mint mark and above it an assay(tughra) mark for gold.

Regards

[Josef Rietveld]

Dear Mahoni i just looked it up in my exemplar of Pride and Privilege and you are right. the thugra is described as gold assay mark but - i'am not sure if i should trust him as i already found some mistakes in this book before.

josef