An Interesting Württemberg Medal Bar

[Stogieman]

This bar recently sold in Germany for about $1,300 USD... Not a bad price if you have a spare W?rttemburg Order of The Crown, Knight's Cross with Swords kicking around in your parts box........ The other missing piece is the W?rttemburg Friedrich's Order. RK1, RK2wX?? I'll bet a beer that Daniel can ID this guy pretty fast... The W?rttemburg Crown Order is one of his "project" pieces! Daniel...... the stage is set!

[Stogieman]

A close up of the rather interesting end of the bar.........

[Dave Danner]

Is there a reason why these must be the orders, and not the Civil Merit Medal and the Medal of the Friedrich Order? Nothing specifically says "officer" to me, but I may be misreading some of the awards.

[Stogieman]

Hi Dave, yes, that would be a possibility, but with the 2 pieces removed, that suggests officer to me. 2 scenarios... removed and returned to ministry prior to 1918 (per regs), pulled because somebody knew they were worth big bucks solo....... I would think if the medals were there, they would still be there.... my 2 cents.

[notned]

Stogieman, isn't that supposed to be a Wurttemburg silver bravery medal on the 2nd last ribbon? that one that is there is a wierd version of it???

[Stogieman]

Nope.... Wedding Jubilee Medal

[notned]

AAAH! i see, that would explain the two faces of a man and a woman.

Thanks Stogie!

Impressive bar nonetheless!

[Dave Danner]

The real oddity, of course, which I'm sure Stogie-Rick noticed, is the Milit?r-Verdienstmedaille with the Geneva Cross. A W?rttemberger with a Schaumburg-Lippe decoration is one thing, but a W?rttemberger with a rather uncommon version of a rather rare Schaumburg-Lippe decoration, and without Schaumburg-Lippe's more typical wartime decoration, is a bit intriguing.

There were over 10,000 awards of the Cross for Loyal Service (Kreuz f?r treue Dienste), Schaumburg-Lippe's Iron Cross equivalent. There were probably less than a 1,000 awards, if even that, of the Milit?r-Verdienstmedaille (no one knows exactly how many were awarded in World War One, but only 583 were awarded in the Franco-Prussian War, when the MVM was Schaumburg-Lippe's main military award). I can't imagine awards with the Geneva Cross were more than a minority.

[Stogieman]

Hi Dave, nope, the bulk of the right end was all unknown to me. I was hoping someone would step up to the plate and tell us all about all the oddities down there! This one was weird, with lots of unknowns, but my gut was telling me it would prove to be right in the end-analysis. I knew 2 of the 3 odd-balls were W?rttemburg but I truthfully had no clue as to the S-L piece with the weird button on the ribbon. Thanks!!

[Dave Danner]

I have a candidate, by the way. Maybe Daniel can rule him on or out.

Dr. Pfleiderer, a Stabsarzt in Landwehrbezirk E?lingen. In 1914, he was shown with the Silver Karl-Olga Medal, the LD2 and the Prussian Red Cross Medal 3rd Class.

I only saw one other officer, Oblt. Kohlhammer of Landwehrbezirk I Stuttgart, with the Silver Karl-Olga Medal who didn't have higher awards. But he's field artillery, so all the medical-type awards wouldn't fit.

Of course, the Silver Karl-Olga Medal continued to be awarded until 1916, and the LD2 could also have come later, so the 1914 rank list might give candidates, but not rule others out.

[Stogieman]

Hi Dave, sounds logical, hopefully Daniel will join us soon and check out the bar. I reallu suspect the Crown Order to be with Swords and I don't remember how many were awarded, but I know it's really low. The W?rrtemburg Order of The Crown is rare and obscure enough to actually be glossed over by many collectors as un-obtainable. I think I've only seen less than 6 examples of an RK. One Commanders w. swords (less than 75 awarded ever) (actually brokered a buy on that one!) and a couple of officer's Crosses. A very simple, yet elegant award!

[Dave Danner]

Hi Dave, sounds logical, hopefully Daniel will join us soon and check out the bar. I reallu suspect the Crown Order to be with Swords and I don't remember how many were awarded, but I know it's really low. The W?rrtemburg Order of The Crown is rare and obscure enough to actually be glossed over by many collectors as un-obtainable. I think I've only seen less than 6 examples of an RK. One Commanders w. swords (less than 75 awarded ever) (actually brokered a buy on that one!) and a couple of officer's Crosses. A very simple, yet elegant award!

For World War I, Klietmann gives 53 Knights with Lions and Swords and 182 Knights with Swords, but these numbers apparently only cover W?rttembergers and non-W?rttembergers serving in W?rttemberg units. There were at least 8 Navy WK3Xs - if any of these weren't W?rttembergers that would push the number up somewhat.

The list that I generated from a 2002 WAF thread, based on input from Rick L., Daniel and Werner Nickel, had 33 WK3XmL and 187 WK3X. There may be some inaccuracies and duplications there.

Dr. Pfleiderer is not on the list, and almost every medical person listed there is an Oberstabsarzt. For combat arms officers, almost all WK3X recipients were majors, and WK3XmL recipients were lieutenant colonels.

BTW, W?rttemberg is a -berg, not a -burg.

[Stogieman]

ahhh, that's what I get for fast, furious fingers working faster than my brain. No offense intended to our German colleagues! W?rttemberg 'tis.

Speaking of Werner, I did extend an invitation to him to join us quite some time back... he is a very busy fellow!