medal bar missing medals

[scottplen]

heres one a bit rough but i kind of like it ! would it be hard to restore ?

1st medal prusian crown order or a wurttemburg piece?? second a wurt. LS award ? and last missing medal baden knights cross without swords? what do you guys think? should i take up this job?

[scottplen]

here is back

[Naxos]

Hi Scott, your ribbon bar is very nice but not in good shape - it will be expensive to get the pieces - however IMO medals look better on a bar then alone and naked.

You have to be sure of the right awards for the ribbons - several people here can help you with that (they helped me).

One important thing to consider is how the awards were originally afixed to the bar - if there are clips, no problem - if they are sewn in, I would not do it since it alters the bar.

Here is my project: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=20970&hl=

Regards, Hardy

[Guest Rick Research]

Defintely not worth the expense.

It's a dingy, ratty bar...

The correct awards would have to be FITTED against it to determine what actually lined up with the gaps in the ribbon and to align flat across the bottom...

There is despite that NO way to determine whether a Baden Z?hringen Lion Knight 2nd with Oakleaves or Knight 1st with Oakleaves was on ther since both are the same height...

Presumably first was a GOLD Friedrich Order Knight 1st... but it could have been an 1870 Knight 2nd with Xs (would have to be fitted to see what goes there and Good Luck with an 1870 WF3bX! )...

WHICH W?rttemberg long service? XXV? XX? King Karl? King Wilhelm?

Chances are, this is what was left after the recipient died and returnable awards were sent back... so sad as it is, What Is, Is.

That bar has been screwed beyond repair by the variables. While-- with enormous expense a dingy, ratty bar could be made back up to Something That Looked Plausible... it could NEVER be ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Which is why we always say NEVER MONKEY AROUND WITH BARS.

Destroyed is destroyed is destroyed is destroyed is DESTROYED.

[scottplen]

Thanks guys It just seems ashame its lost ! i am an old softy and thought it would be nice to if possible to restore bar !

:speechless:

[Guest Rick Research]

:Cat-Scratch: Golly gee JJ-- nobody's entitled to THEIR opinion-- when asked for it-- JUST you?

Duly noted!

[Naxos]

Thanks guys It just seems ashame its lost !

Scott, not lost at all!

It's a beauty, full of genuine history, just as it is.

:cheers:

[Les]

If the bar has known provenance and identifiable, restoration -might- be worth considering. If it can't be idenitified, I'd look carefully at the ribbons. While silk can be professionally cleaned, any tears or holes could easily be far more trouble and expense than the finanical and other intangible values restoration might give in return. If there are any small holes, tears, or weak spots in the cloth I'd suggest a rethink of the project and how much effort, time, and money you're willing to invest.

Cleaning silk even by museum conservation staff always carries with it an element of risk. Using -any- chemicals, even water, affects the chemical stability of the fibers. Museum and professional conservators aren't cheap, usually have a very long to-do list. Mounted ribbons are not as easy to clean as flat strips of cloth. Cleaning the ribbons "in place" is more difficult and can be far more expensive than removing the ribbons, cleaning them, and then putting them back on the bar mounting. (That's also major historical restoration if they are removed, cleaned, and put back on.) Money aside, some of them are picky about what they want to work on, and may decide they aren't interested. Conservators are similar to medical responders who "triage" patients and set priorities whether someone or something can be cared for.

Rick's point about medals being returned by family after the death of the recipient is part of the historical past. If the bar underwent what amounts to legal and mandatory sugery by the requirements of the state, undoing that "surgery" -is- tampering with history.

The bar has been altered, and Rick pointing out that possibly two very significant medals were removed, isn't the same as replacing a lost or removed "Hindenburg", "Centenary" or length of service medal.

I have graduate degrees in anthropology/archaeology and am resposible for putting tonnes of artefacts into museum storage. Recovering items in the field requires making decisions on how to use conservation resources, what to spend money on for lab tests, etc. I have a great deal of first hand experience in the field, labs, and museums. Historians (and archaeologists) frequently talk about how important history is, but not everything is worth preserving. What -is- comes with experience, and weighing against time, available financial and other resources, not to mention storing "everything."

Personally, I have to side with Rick. Leave the bar alone......unless you can determine what medals might have been there, and then determine who the bar might have been owned by. If you can't do both of those, you're likely to spend quite a bit having the ribbons cleaned and not get much of intrinsic or other intangible values in return.

Unless you have deep pockets and how you spend your money isn't a major concern, think about using that folding currency to purchase a bar (or bars) in better condition that don't require addition input after you acquire it.

Les

Edited November 28, 2008 by Les

[Mike Dwyer]

No I just dont like being bullied

I'm probably going to regret this, but I can't just let this slide by. I think you're being a bit over sensitive JJ. No one bullied you or put you down. Rick Research, one of the most, if not the most, knowledgeable person here, expressed his very expert opinion on this medal bar. Opinions were asked for and he gave his. That's the extent of it. You may not agree with his opinion, but it was freely given when solicited. If you think he's wrong, that's fine, but I'm sure he didn't mean to offend you in any way.

[saschaw]

That bar used to be mine. I saw it again in Kassel, too. Scott, did you yet buy it? I'm not sure if it is still available, it may have been sold or selling today or tomorrow.

Chances are, this is what was left after the recipient died and returnable awards were sent back... so sad as it is, What Is, Is.

I think that's right here, and that was one of the reasons I did not replace anything. W?rttemberg's long service crosses had to be returned, as the orders had to.

WHICH W?rttemberg long service? XXV? XX? King Karl? King Wilhelm?

It was a XXV as the cross used to be tied down with yellow theread. But Karl or Wilhelm? No idea...

Better pictures?! =)

Edited November 29, 2008 by saschaw

[scottplen]

no i decided to pass! it is a nice bar but condition ????

Thanks and I sorry I did not want to start any fights over it !!!! :speechless1: