Camo. M-16 possibly from a machine gun crew

[Jesse]

Does anybody recognize the emblem on the side of this M-16? I'm trying to determine a little of it's history and above all else if it is genuine. Thanks Much

[Chip]

In my humble opinion, this helmet is a fantasy piece. The colors of the camo are more like what you see on postwar souvenirs and I have serious doubts about the MGSS insignia. No one has proven to me that this insignia was ever painted on helmets during the war.

Regards,

Chip

[Chris Boonzaier]

I agree with chip....

although if ever I founded a documented WW1 helmet with insignia I would give my left arm for it..... sigh.......

[Guest Rick Research]

The other point is... during the war, machine gunners were routinely killed on the spot by infantry who had survived charging them. I've read German accounts of them removing their elite MGSSA sleeve insignia in the front lines to avoid that fate-- so painting such an insignia on a helmet makes no sense.

Not during the war. Not at the front.

Allied accounts made much hoo hah at the time about German soldiers being "chained" to machine gun sleds to keep them from running away-- often finding dead in that condition. The sad reality was that by then the conscripts were largely underage and puny from war rations back home and NEEDED such harness to heave the heavy mounts around over smashed ground.

Life for a German machine gunner in 1918 was NOT good....

[Chip]

Life for a German machine gunner in 1918 was NOT good....

Especially if Alvin York was around!

Chip

[Jesse]

Especially if Alvin York was around!

Chip

I can never grasp something like that. How do 17 Germans get killed and the other 132 give up? HAHAHA I would have liked to have seen how that went down. Something like Band of Brothers when the officer rus over the hill and starts cranking all the sleeping Germans ?

[Chip]

Jesse,

If you read the account of the action, you will know that the Germans were anything but asleep. York's flanking maneuver almost ended in disaster when the Germans started firing on him while he was holding his first group of hostages. His marksmanship was the only thing that saved his squad at that point. I think you can rest the remaining blame on one of the German captives, Leutnant Vollmer, who convinced all of the others they encountered to surrender (he didn't have much of a choice, as he most likely would have been shot otherwise). He was not too proud of his actions in later years and refused to say anything about it.

Chip

Edited January 11, 2009 by Chip

[Jesse]

Jesse,

If you read the account of the action, you will know that the Germans were anything but asleep. York's flanking maneuver almost ended in disaster when the Germans started firing on him while he was holding his first group of hostiges. His marksmanship was the only thing that saved his squad at that point. I think you can rest the remaining blame on one of the German captives, Leutnant Vollmer, who convinced all of the others they encountered to surrender (he didn't have much of a choice, as he most likely would have been shot otherwise). He was not too proud of his actions in later years and refused to say anything about it.

Chip

Thanks Chip, Thats interesting. I hadn'y looked that deep into it.

[cnock]

some years ago, at fairs in Belgium, sellers proposed several of these helmets with the MG badge painted on hem.

'all found in the same barn' one explained.

Cnock