Kriegsmarine Strange visor cap

[hard hat diver]

Hello Gentlemen:

This is my first post in this prestigious forum, thank you for acceptance!!

I need the help of the expert to identify my recent adquisition: The seller in Argentina say to me the visor cap is a marine veteran hat. They show me in a book the same badge and the same wreath, for marine veterans from WW!. Is this hat original TR period or is a fake.

My doubts: 1- the perfect shape (post war?).

2- the absence of the black band.

3- the eagle seal in the interior of the sweat band.

Thank you in advance.

Sorry for my bad English

Best regards.

Daniel

[hard hat diver]

Hello Gentlemen:

This is my first post in this prestigious forum, thank you for acceptance!!

I need the help of the expert to identify my recent adquisition: The seller in Argentina say to me the visor cap is a marine veteran hat. They show me in a book the same badge and the same wreath, for marine veterans from WW!. Is this hat original TR period or is a fake.

My doubts: 1- the perfect shape (post war?).

2- the absence of the black band.

3- the eagle seal in the interior of the sweat band.

Thank you in advance.

Sorry for my bad English

Best regards.

Daniel

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[Gordon Williamson]

Hello Daniel,

The sweat diamond inside looks to be from stiff celluloid rather than soft plastic, which is a good sign.

However, the firm of Heinrich von der Aa in Bremen was still in business until recent times, still making naval caps so any caps with this makers details inside has to be treated with caution as the majority of them that turn up come from after World War 2.

The combination of insignia and style of cap doesn't look right to me. A cap in the exact style used by the Kriegsmarine (like your cap) was authorised in 1937 and it certainly used the type of cockade/oakleaves badge on the cap band that your cap has. However this cap was worn with the gold metal eagle/swastika with the iron cross on its breast. They should also have marked on the lining "Vorschriftsm?ssige M?tze des NSDMB"

Either way, the cap should have the black woven mohair band which is missing.

What material is the binding around the edge of the visor ? It does look excessively shiney which suggests it may be plastic and that would indicate postwar.

The bigest red flag for me is the stamp on the inside of the sweatband. This is just plain wrong and has been added to try and "enhance" the cap. The stamp is a document stamp from a Minesweeper Flotilla and should never be found inside a cap.

I strongly suspect that this is an early postwar Bundesmarine cap which has been messed around with.

[hard hat diver]

Hello Gordon:

thank you for your responce. You are right about the material around the visor, is plastic, sure is a post war hat. What do you thing about the chinstrap (they are genuine leather), and the badge, is it really a veteran badge?. the wreath and cokade would be original? Sorry for to many questions, but I am learning to much from you. I spend $400 american dollars in this cap, is good enought for a postwar?

Thanks a lot for your atention.

Best regards.

Daniel

PD:I was presented the pics in the right way for the forum?

[Michel]

Hello Daniel,

Too expensive for a bund cap. In the futur, be carefull with the "von der AA" logo.

Regards,

Michel

[hard hat diver]

Hello Michel: Thank you for your reply! I learn a lot from you and Gordon. I will be most carrefully the next time!!

Regards

Daniel

[SprogCollector]

Daniel,

Sorry to read about your cap. I think it's actually a postwar Wasserschutzpolizei or Handelsmarine (Merchant Navy) cap, not Bundesmarine. Depending on which state in Germany, some Polizei caps did not have the black cap band and look as yours does. The badges varied and its possible your cap badge has simply had a Bundes cockade replaced with the earlier style.

I collect early Bundeswehr items and have a number of early Bundesmarine caps. I would measure the space where a cap band should be. Postwar caps tend to be about 35mm. The Polizei caps are closer to 40-42mm.

Not sure about the badge but I also suspect modern. When I lived in Germany in the 1980s, several sailing clubs had similar oval-shaped badges in the same pattern. The ones I recall seeing had DMB in the same place the DMV is on yours.

$400 is far too much for these caps. Most are between $30-90. Are you able to get your money back?

Chris

Edited June 21, 2009 by SprogCollector