No Names Just Initials: A "Lost" Count Struggling For An Epic Story....

[Guest Rick Research]

Fusileer pattern sword (so someone in Prussian "infantry" regiments 33-39 or Hohenzollern #40) circa 1870 and professionally sharpened to slash apart Frenchmen:

The scabbard is pattern for dual mounted (saddle attachment) or foot use, pre 1906 updated in 1910 (so still alive) by overpainting black BUT the second ring was not cut off as regulations required.

[Guest Rick Research]

On the pommel cap, the Count's (Graf's) family arms with 9 ball crown of his level of nobility:

A brick wall is an apt metaphor for trying to identify him!

[Guest Rick Research]

But wait! It gets worse! The random pattern reed back sword has his INITIALS again under the crown of a Graf--

But was he R Graf von H or H Graf von R?

My best GUESS, based on the size of the letters, is that it was "R Graf von H."

In 1879 there were no Grafs EITHER way in a Fusileer Regiment. But there were these families of Counts "H"--

Graf von Hacke

Graf von Hardenberg

Graf von Harrach

Graf von Haslingen

Graf von Helmstatt

Graf Henckel von Donnersmarck

Graf von Hennin

Graf von Herzberg

Graf von Hessenstein (stones? Bricks? WALLS? ???)

Graf von Hochberg Freiherr zu F?rstenstein (STONE again?....)

Graf von Hohenau

Graf von Hohenthal

Graf von Holnstein aus Bayern (Stone again? Thats the family name, not a refernce TO Bavaria....)

or

Graf von Hutten-Czapski

But EVERYTHING hangs on the shield design. Know the family, THEN can search for first names, ones still alive in 1910, and possible Fusileers.

HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Rick Research]

Some blade. It was quite amusing contorting to get this scanned (requiring two arms to hold it still and one to manipulate the scanner controls) with razor sharp blade poised to either King Solomon my keyboard or commit multiple seppuku on the scanner operators. You people have NO idea of the danger we face entertaining y'alls.

The Count was a Very Large Person. I am 6 foot 2 and it fits drag on the ground, pommel cap in my hand like a cane-- as if it was made for me.

[Guest Rick Research]

Graf von Haslingen left FR 86 (I was forgetting FRs 80 and 86 ) in 1879 to take up duties with the Cadetten Corps-- but he was G-eorg, I think......

[Swordguy]

This beautiful sword was completed by Ewald Cleff, who worked between 1862 and 1965. Cleff is not known to have produced swords after 1914 when production went over to war material. No swords are known from the WWII period. This maker is known for his distinctive deep etched designs. This style sword was popular in the 1870-80 era predating the patterns ordered for the German military in 1889. It is unknown if Cleff produced blades in his own shop and seems unlikely since he is listed as a blade grinder and finisher. The tang of the blade is usually stamped with the mark of the smith. In this case "KH" possibly Karl Henckels (1849-1917) Karl and his five brothers took over their Fathers sword making business and formed J.A. Henckels in 1870. Their Father was a fine sword maker and displayed at the Crystal Palace in London- 1851. The blade on this sword was "cutting edge" design during the 1870's-80's and beyond. Copied from weapons popular in the British military from about 1850 the "rod back blade" was used in the German mounted troopers swords begining in 1889. In German the rod back blade is called a Steckruckenklinge. A blade of this type can be used to inflict horrid slashing wounds and is strong enough to use as a thrusting weapon as well. While this sword may look very pretty it was built for combat. Little research has been done on sword production in Germany. There were never many damascus blades made and the smiths who could do the work provided blanks to any company who placed an order after which another craftsman would grind the blade, another would polish, another would etch with acid, another would hilt and finally another would add the gilding and lastly assemble and finish. A damascus blade blank from the smith unfinished could add up to 90 gold marks to the cost of a sword and could take the smith up to 40 hours to produce. Even a huge firm like Eickhorn did not have a damascus smith in the factory, they hired all that type of work out because of the cost and the infrequency of orders. Just in passing, when you received a blade blank from a smith you did not know what you were getting. The pattern is reveiled with the acid in one of the final steps of finishing. If you ordered "Band", Turkish, Maidenhair or rose, you had to depend on the smith who himself could only form the pattern in his minds-eye as he worked.

[Swordguy]

Something forgotten in my former post. In 1861 Germany mastered the art of producing cast steel. This was a big, big moment for German industrialization. The British had been casting steel for some time. You will find German swords made for the military with the proof marks: (crown)61/W and the exact same mark with the "G" mark above the crown. This stands for "Cast steel". This put the blade smiths out of business. Cheap cast steel vs. expensive hand forged blades. The best smiths had to find a nitch to work in and that was high end damascus steel, while working on horse shoes on the off weeks. Traditionally a German damascus blade has 336 layers of steel and iron producing flexability beyond belief, strength and the ability to hold and edge.

[suumcuique]

Hey guys,

a very nice sword!

I am afraid I need to add to the complication: There is also the guard fuesilier regiment, with probably a lot of nobles in it. Plus the sword may also be worn as a cavalry interim piece, even though these guys usually preferred lion head sabres.

Best,

Frank

[Duv]

But wait! It gets worse! The random pattern reed back sword has his INITIALS again under the crown of a Graf--

But was he R Graf von H or H Graf von R?

My best GUESS, based on the size of the letters, is that it was "R Graf von H."

In 1879 there were no Grafs EITHER way in a Fusileer Regiment. But there were these families of Counts "H"--

Graf von Hacke

Graf von Hardenberg

Graf von Harrach

Graf von Haslingen

Graf von Helmstatt

Graf Henckel von Donnersmarck

Graf von Hennin

Graf von Herzberg

Graf von Hessenstein (stones? Bricks? WALLS? ???)

Graf von Hochberg Freiherr zu F?rstenstein (STONE again?....)

Graf von Hohenau

Graf von Hohenthal

Graf von Holnstein aus Bayern (Stone again? Thats the family name, not a refernce TO Bavaria....)

or

Graf von Hutten-Czapski

But EVERYTHING hangs on the shield design. Know the family, THEN can search for first names, ones still alive in 1910, and possible Fusileers.

HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My Greatuncle by marriage was Graf Rudolf von Herzberg who married my Greataunt in Erfurt in 1866. I am afraid that I know nothing of his Military career except that he was a Major-General,and that he and his family lived in Erfurt.

[suumcuique]

My Greatuncle by marriage was Graf Rudolf von Herzberg who married my Greataunt in Erfurt in 1866. I am afraid that I know nothing of his Military career except that he was a Major-General,and that he and his family lived in Erfurt.

So this is your family's sword?

[Duv]

So this is your family's sword?

Possibly,but I havent been able to check the coat of arms yet. I have however been able to find a bit more about him. Rudolph Kurt Wilhelm, Graf von Hertzberg, (1832-1898) Hauptman and Kompanie-Chef Thuringisches Regiment 31, wounded in action near Beaumont and Monzon on 30th August 1870, in hospital in Beaumont,discharged and rejoined regiment on 25th October. Holder of Iron Cross 2nd Class

[Duv]

Possibly,but I havent been able to check the coat of arms yet. I have however been able to find a bit more about him. Rudolph Kurt Wilhelm, Graf von Hertzberg, (1832-1898) Hauptman and Kompanie-Chef Thuringisches Regiment 31, wounded in action near Beaumont and Monzon on 30th August 1870, in hospital in Beaumont,discharged and rejoined regiment on 25th October. Holder of Iron Cross 2nd Class

Sorry,a couple of spelling mistakes in my reply of the 11th: I spelled Herzberg with a t, and the village is Mouzon, not Monzon. The Beaumont is the one in Argonne. I have now tried to check out the coat of arms, but it does not match any of those of the Grafen on your list. I think its got to be a canting design as you thought ,but more suitable for hanging outside The Bricklayers Arms than on a shield of any of the families of the candidates in your list! Not nearly elegant or elaborate enough, too Municipal. Its quite a puzzle,and I would be very interested to read what conclusions you come to. In the meantime I will try to find out some more.

[Guest Rick Research]

Tidying up from when I was offline. FOUND him-- miraculously enough, from the family Wappen. NOT a Count R- H. Count H- R.

[Guest Rick Research]

Thank the gods of the Research Gnomes for Starcke Verlag!!!!

[Guest Rick Research]

So there we have him: Karl HERMANN Ernst Friedrich Otto Detlev Graf zu Reventlow, *1874, alive 1955, as worn in Fusilier Regiment 35 1901-1909.

Now if only I could find the naval "happy goldfish" count's sword from HIS Wappen!

[Paul R]

This is a truly awesome development Rick!! Congrats! Is this sword yours?

[Guest Rick Research]

No. Traveling Museum. My greatest treasures are my friends. (Awwwww.)